Elilee XXE Crankset

[StiffWeenies]

I have a feeling that the 290g version is just how the 24mm Ti spindle option will be marketed. There's a 22g difference between the SRM Origin 24mm Ti (94g) and 30mm Alloy (116g) spindles so a 30g difference for the Elilee doesn't seem too far off once you factor in the 28mm-to-DUB/30mm conversion shim.

Besides, there just isn't enough economies of scale to justify developing two different layups for the carbon arms.

A little update on this

The 24mm Ti axle is now out and it's actually heavier than the 28mm alloy on top of being flexier. Ti axle crankset's sans-PM weight is 340g versus 320g for the alloy.

For those who prefer to run PM pedals over PM spiders, Elilee has come out with 5-arm and 4-arm alloy spiders. The 4-arm alloy spiders also have the option of being able to attach clear decorative covers (~11g) that mimic R9200 and R9100 chainring design language.

R9200:


R9100:


Elilee is confirmed to be working on a carbon axle crankset which should come in at a sans-PM weight of approx. 285-290g. There will also be carbon spiders for even more WW goodness (4-arm carbon at ~30g v. 4-arm alloy at ~46g).


It remains to be seen how they can balance weight with stiffness as the main competitor to this carbon axle crankset, the THM Clavicula SE, was revealed to be quite flexy according to Elilee's internal testing:


There are XC cranks coming too:

[ricerocket]

Any reason they didn't include Hollowgrams?

Without rings, they're right around 320g as well, and are known to be stiffer than most.

[C36]

Do they really exist on the market? Chinese-brands crankset have quite an history of being plagued with problems and never deliver up to very high claims… is this another one? Here adding complexity on the different axles…

[mrlobber]

Any reason they didn't include Hollowgrams?

Without rings, they're right around 320g as well, and are known to be stiffer than most.

Because they don't fit almost any new frame anymore?
Anyway, while good cranks, they weren't the pinnacle on stiffness anyway, look for Fairwheelbikes crank shootout, which had all the numbers a few years back.

On the topic, I share the same concerns as C36. On paper many of these cranks look light & stiff, in practice they're unobtanium outside of China and/or have some serious problems popping up after short term usage.

[C36]

Si hollowgram are among the absolute stiffest (forged hollow structure)
SISL2 (2 pieces cnc machines) still have a fantastic stiffness to weight but they are not as stiff as previous gen (due to weight reduction).

[RDY]

I have a feeling that the 290g version is just how the 24mm Ti spindle option will be marketed. There's a 22g difference between the SRM Origin 24mm Ti (94g) and 30mm Alloy (116g) spindles so a 30g difference for the Elilee doesn't seem too far off once you factor in the 28mm-to-DUB/30mm conversion shim.

Besides, there just isn't enough economies of scale to justify developing two different layups for the carbon arms.

A little update on this

The 24mm Ti axle is now out and it's actually heavier than the 28mm alloy on top of being flexier. Ti axle crankset's sans-PM weight is 340g versus 320g for the alloy.

For those who prefer to run PM pedals over PM spiders, Elilee has come out with 5-arm and 4-arm alloy spiders. The 4-arm alloy spiders also have the option of being able to attach clear decorative covers (~11g) that mimic R9200 and R9100 chainring design language.

Elilee is confirmed to be working on a carbon axle crankset which should come in at a sans-PM weight of approx. 285-290g. There will also be carbon spiders for even more WW goodness (4-arm carbon at ~30g v. 4-arm alloy at ~46g).

It remains to be seen how they can balance weight with stiffness as the main competitor to this carbon axle crankset, the THM Clavicula SE, was revealed to be quite flexy according to Elilee's internal testing:

There are XC cranks coming too:

What's the stiffness measured in? Amount of deflection? Is it replicating a pedaling load or static load? The Ti axle being that much more nominally flexy looks slightly worrisome. Also that it came in that much flexier and also significantly overweight relative to their initial projections (and the Al version) tends to suggest it might not be without problems. It sounds like they could have made a lighter - and certainly stiffer & cheaper - steel one. Surely if the Ti one came in this flexy and overweight it makes sense to junk it.

Interested to see how the MTB one works out.

Are these likely to show up on Ali?

[eucalyptus]

I am just happy that some company tries to develop something new and push the limits, the idea of using a Ti axle is great because how would you know the results if you dont try. And if some Chinese company succeeds with a relativel light but cheaper option than THM then thats great. Having only THM making the worlds most exclusive crankset is not good for the market either

[alanyu]

I have a feeling that the 290g version is just how the 24mm Ti spindle option will be marketed. There's a 22g difference between the SRM Origin 24mm Ti (94g) and 30mm Alloy (116g) spindles so a 30g difference for the Elilee doesn't seem too far off once you factor in the 28mm-to-DUB/30mm conversion shim.

Besides, there just isn't enough economies of scale to justify developing two different layups for the carbon arms.

A little update on this

The 24mm Ti axle is now out and it's actually heavier than the 28mm alloy on top of being flexier. Ti axle crankset's sans-PM weight is 340g versus 320g for the alloy.

For those who prefer to run PM pedals over PM spiders, Elilee has come out with 5-arm and 4-arm alloy spiders. The 4-arm alloy spiders also have the option of being able to attach clear decorative covers (~11g) that mimic R9200 and R9100 chainring design language.

Elilee is confirmed to be working on a carbon axle crankset which should come in at a sans-PM weight of approx. 285-290g. There will also be carbon spiders for even more WW goodness (4-arm carbon at ~30g v. 4-arm alloy at ~46g).

It remains to be seen how they can balance weight with stiffness as the main competitor to this carbon axle crankset, the THM Clavicula SE, was revealed to be quite flexy according to Elilee's internal testing:

There are XC cranks coming too:

What's the stiffness measured in? Amount of deflection? Is it replicating a pedaling load or static load? The Ti axle being that much more nominally flexy looks slightly worrisome. Also that it came in that much flexier and also significantly overweight relative to their initial projections (and the Al version) tends to suggest it might not be without problems. It sounds like they could have made a lighter - and certainly stiffer & cheaper - steel one. Surely if the Ti one came in this flexy and overweight it makes sense to junk it.

Interested to see how the MTB one works out.

Are these likely to show up on Ali?

It's measured under a static load on a bare spindle of the pedal. The flexier 24 is not unexpected.

The bending stiffness is roughly proportional to E * (OD^4-ID^4), where E is the young's modulus, if two are similar. Given two pipes with the OD1 = 28, ID1 = 24 (assumed), E1 = 71.7 GPa (7075 T6), and OD2 = 24, E2 = 113.6 GPa (Grade 5 Ti), a same stiffness will call for ID2 =19.8. The density of Ti is 60% higher than Al, and the Ti spindle of XXE 28 is roughly 70 g, so we need a 100 g Al 24 spindle to give a same stiffness based on this simplified model. Their test results of 24 spindle crankset is 77% stiff as the 30 spindle one, so 100 * 77% = 77 g. Sounds like 7 g compensation is enough? However, note that this simplified model doesn't consider the 28>24 reducer, which can induce more flex, you need again to add more weight (material) to the spindle to compensate it, and also add the weight of the reducer itself.

Also, steel spindle won't be both stiffer and lighter, if you want an as stiff steel spindle, it needs to be heavier. In this way, it will be as stiff, heavier, but stronger.

[RDY]

I have a feeling that the 290g version is just how the 24mm Ti spindle option will be marketed. There's a 22g difference between the SRM Origin 24mm Ti (94g) and 30mm Alloy (116g) spindles so a 30g difference for the Elilee doesn't seem too far off once you factor in the 28mm-to-DUB/30mm conversion shim.

Besides, there just isn't enough economies of scale to justify developing two different layups for the carbon arms.

A little update on this

The 24mm Ti axle is now out and it's actually heavier than the 28mm alloy on top of being flexier. Ti axle crankset's sans-PM weight is 340g versus 320g for the alloy.

For those who prefer to run PM pedals over PM spiders, Elilee has come out with 5-arm and 4-arm alloy spiders. The 4-arm alloy spiders also have the option of being able to attach clear decorative covers (~11g) that mimic R9200 and R9100 chainring design language.

Elilee is confirmed to be working on a carbon axle crankset which should come in at a sans-PM weight of approx. 285-290g. There will also be carbon spiders for even more WW goodness (4-arm carbon at ~30g v. 4-arm alloy at ~46g).

It remains to be seen how they can balance weight with stiffness as the main competitor to this carbon axle crankset, the THM Clavicula SE, was revealed to be quite flexy according to Elilee's internal testing:

There are XC cranks coming too:

What's the stiffness measured in? Amount of deflection? Is it replicating a pedaling load or static load? The Ti axle being that much more nominally flexy looks slightly worrisome. Also that it came in that much flexier and also significantly overweight relative to their initial projections (and the Al version) tends to suggest it might not be without problems. It sounds like they could have made a lighter - and certainly stiffer & cheaper - steel one. Surely if the Ti one came in this flexy and overweight it makes sense to junk it.

Interested to see how the MTB one works out.

Are these likely to show up on Ali?

It's measured under a static load on a bare spindle of the pedal. The flexier 24 is not unexpected.

The bending stiffness is roughly proportional to E * (OD^4-ID^4), where E is the young's modulus, if two are similar. Given two pipes with the OD1 = 28, ID1 = 24 (assumed), E1 = 71.7 GPa (7075 T6), and OD2 = 24, E2 = 113.6 GPa (Grade 5 Ti), a same stiffness will call for ID2 =19.8. The density of Ti is 60% higher than Al, and the Ti spindle of XXE 28 is roughly 70 g, so we need a 100 g Al 24 spindle to give a same stiffness based on this simplified model. Their test results of 24 spindle crankset is 77% stiff as the 30 spindle one, so 100 * 77% = 77 g. Sounds like 7 g compensation is enough? However, note that this simplified model doesn't consider the 28>24 reducer, which can induce more flex, you need again to add more weight (material) to the spindle to compensate it, and also add the weight of the reducer itself.

Also, steel spindle won't be both stiffer and lighter, if you want an as stiff steel spindle, it needs to be heavier. In this way, it will be as stiff, heavier, but stronger.

It sounds like the reducer is probably the culprit for both weight and lack of stiffness then.

I was speaking in terms of other steel vs Al weight / stiffness spindle options. This turned out a lot heavier than Elilee initially projected, and presumably flexier too. If the reducer is the problem then I guess it's an issue regardless, and it's best not to buy it if your frame is designed for 24/25mm spindles.

[C36]

[mention]alanyu [/mention] material Performance Index for Stifness to Weight:
- traction = E/density
- flexion = E^(1/2)/density
- torsion = E^(1/3)/density

That mean that if you have enough space to make the axle resistant enough, Al will be stiffer or lighter than Ti or Steel.
Now you could decide Ti for better wear resistance under the bearing seat or to have a smaller axle and bigger bearings. But in terms of stiffness to weight nothing will beat an Al axle (for metallic axles).

[alanyu]

[mention]alanyu [/mention] material Performance Index for Stifness to Weight:
- traction = E/density
- flexion = E^(1/2)/density
- torsion = E^(1/3)/density

That mean that if you have enough space to make the axle resistant enough, Al will be stiffer or lighter than Ti or Steel.
Now you could decide Ti for better wear resistance under the bearing seat or to have a smaller axle and bigger bearings. But in terms of stiffness to weight nothing will beat an Al axle (for metallic axles).

The formula you listed is kinda true. Regarding the bending stiffness due to the pedaling force, you must consider the r^4 term, and Ti has a slight advantage than Al.

Also I don't think they considered the wearing Al vs Ti, since they chose Shimano route. 28/24 with a plastic sleeve/reducer or whatever you call between the spindle and the bearing.

[robbosmans]

I’ll be interested if they set up good distributor like Sigeyi.

[wheelsONfire]

Do i see these pics correct?
The crankarm looks flat!
I had rather preferred the crankarm slightly shaped outwards towards the pedal/ feet.
Especially noted riding Sram Etap gen 1, going from standard Red crank to FSA K-Force light.
There's way better clearance to the FD cage which is really great. Also no rubbing.
Using short pedal axels or pedals/ cleats for narrower Q-factor will place the shoe very close to the crankarm.

[BigBoyND]

Good catch. Potential upside is narrow q-factor, though

[isehk]

Do i see these pics correct?
The crankarm looks flat!
I had rather preferred the crankarm slightly shaped outwards towards the pedal/ feet.
Especially noted riding Sram Etap gen 1, going from standard Red crank to FSA K-Force light.
There's way better clearance to the FD cage which is really great. Also no rubbing.
Using short pedal axels or pedals/ cleats for narrower Q-factor will place the shoe very close to the crankarm.

I think the arm is not flat, it is a bit shaped outwards but not much.

I will check it tomorrow and go for first ride.
(with this XXE crank and the same brand 1140g XXE X46 wheelset on my SEKA exceed RDC)