Allround sporty bike - Tarmac SL7 vs the rest

[TLN]

Hi all.

Looking for a new bike/frame to replace my SL5 Disc. I'm tall/heavy rider with XL/60-61 frame: won't be chasing grams, but going after stable and fast bike.

-Want to be able to run Enve 4.5AR (or similar) with 32c measured tires for extra comfort. I'll stick with 28-30c tires that will end up being 31-32c
-Will use SRAM AXS with Dub crankset. Prefet not to have any compromises in bottom bracket. T47 is preffered. PF30/OSBB are ok. but no BB86
-I'd like to have all cables integrated. Having barstem combo is also good option, especially if I can run cables neatly.
-Extra points for small bag/storage: either "bento box" on top of frame (BMC RM01, Cervelo) or some in-frame storage (like on BMC Timemachine Road, Orbea Orca aero or Roubaix) but there're only few bikes that have it.
-I'm not the most flexible person, so not looking for a full blown aero bike. I prefer not to have tons of spacers. Currently have 1cm on top of SL5 Tarmac.

Current Tarmac is on CLX40 wheels (17mm internal) and before I had Allez Spring on CLX64. Besides Allez being alu bike, I liked it a bit better for planted feel. Hard to tell where it came from: stiffer frame, stem or bigger/wider wheels.

From what is seems, Tarmac SL7 is one of the best options out there, as it have everything inlcuding T47 bottom bracket minus top tube mounts.
Are there any bikes that come close to that and use threaded BB?

What my options are if we exclude threaded BB, but stick with "bigger" bottom bracket: BB30/PF30/386EVO
So far I found only a few bikes that match all the criterias:

Current Tarmac SL5, Stack/reach: 612/408, with 1cm (I think) spacer.

• Tarmac SL7: 602/411: BSA BB, nice integration (stem + bar). Seems too popular, other than that clears all the requirements. That's non S-works frame
  Chaper2 Toa: 602/399, T47 bracket, got integrated handlebar.
  Parlee RZ7: 600/409. PF30 BB, oversized stem with limited adjustability: +-1cm only. Pretty rare and seems comfy.
  Orbea Orca OMX: 616/404: 386EVO BB. Lots of cool paint options.
  Madone: 601/399: T47 BB, integraged bar. Less tire clearance, but seems that it can do 30cm measured.
  Cannondale Supersix: 614/406: BB30, heavy integrated bar.

So far I'm choosing between Tarmac SL7, Chapter2, Parlee and Orbea OMX: Price-wise: orbea is cheaper, then Parlee, Tarmac and Chapter2.
Parlee looks most exotic and aero and most premium. Should I even consider the rest if I can get one?
Chapter2 hits all the boxes,have T47 and comes with barstem.
Orbea and Tarmac looks like every other bike on the market. It seems that for the same price, I should go with Orca OMX (aka Hi-mod/S-works) vs standart Tarmac.

Any thoughts?

[rhender]

I think the new Emonda rather than the Madone is more inline with the Tarmac

[TLN]

I think the new Emonda rather than the Madone is more inline with the Tarmac

Existing tarmac is mentioned as an example of what I'm riding right now. I got no need for lightweight bike and I'd go for Madone over Emonda for sure.

[yingyu]

Tarmac SL7 geometry is as aggressive as other aero bikes and is very close to SL5 you have (SL7 has 10mm less stack but also has a 10mm non-removable spacer). So your flexibility shouldn't be a concern.

https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/spec ... c-2018-52/

Chpt2 Toa has nice paint job and is less common on the road, but I doubt it has gone through much aero testing (because company is small) other than adding aero-looking features.

[TLN]

Chpt2 Toa has nice paint job and is less common on the road, but I doubt it has gone through much aero testing (because company is small) other than adding aero-looking features.

Well, Parlee was also never tested as well.
I think its pretty hard to differentiate any frames at that level for amateur rider. In that case I'm relying on other users' experience, feedback and common sense.

[Stendhal]

Very good questions, congratulations on doing your research!

As an Orbea OMX and Chapter2 owner (Rere aero model), and a former Tarmac owner (SL 6), I think you can't go wrong with any of those choices. The only reason I sold the Tarmac was to move to discs and take wider tires (the rim SL6 had issues even with size 28 tires).

The new Toa specs the frame as relatively heavy, but that's not too much an issue for you. My Rere has the same excellent one piece barstem that now comes standard on the Toa, and I trust Chapter2's engineering a lot (it's not their first company, they came from NeilPryde which produced some good bikes), my Rere handles like a dream. The Toa frame set is not as expensive as it appears considering the price now comes with the barstem and seatpost. As to aero testing the company claims to test at a New Zealand university wind tunnel, but the new aero model is the Koko, not the all arounder Toa which sounds closer to what you want.

The Orbea will take size 32 tires very easily (that's what I use) which renders it very stable, and Orbea may still have the no extra charge custom paint coloring. It rides very stiff due to massive chain stays and a stiff heavy (220 g) stem. That being said the size 32 tires ameliorate the stiffness so it's comfortable overall.

As to geometry my two bikes are practically identical to the former SL6 which I liked a lot (I rely on stack and reach and that has never let me down). As to bento box storage I had that on my Cervelo Aspero, it's the opposite of having a sporty bike.

[toffee]

Just get new specialised. I find it hard to believe any other company can deliver as good a product... years of design, manufactured a gazillion frames.

otherwise.. just ride what u got.. it ain't so bad

[sigma]

Chpt2 Toa has nice paint job and is less common on the road, but I doubt it has gone through much aero testing (because company is small) other than adding aero-looking features.

Well, Parlee was also never tested as well.
I think its pretty hard to differentiate any frames at that level for amateur rider. In that case I'm relying on other users' experience, feedback and common sense.

Chapter 2 extensively uses a wind-tunnel in Auckland fwiw. Both Parlee and Chapter 2 have extensive aerodynamic backgorunds in other sports. How well that translates to cycling is unclear, but Factor for instance have done a fantastic job of making that transition (Factor One is right there with the Venge, S5, Aerorad for aerodynamic efficiency). I certainly considered both the RZ7 and Toa.

[Conradsleight]

Have you considered a Factor Ostro? I did a ton of research as well and was originally considering an SL7 as well, but ended up going with factor.

I was really put off by specialized's handling of the steerer tube recall, and in general their recent tendency to completely price gouge. The bike went up from around $14K/15k CAD to now almost $18K in the space of a year. Ridiculous.

And then on the flip side, there was a lot that appealed to me about Factor and the Ostro.

Definitely much better value I think when you look at all the parts. Great customization options too, great customer service (had several great connects with their people so far, including a couple responses from the ceo), and the bikes are very well reviewed and raced at a high level. I don't have mine yet so we'll see of course, but from everything I looked at, they seemed like one of the best options out there.

[TLN]

The new Toa specs the frame as relatively heavy, but that's not too much an issue for you. My Rere has the same excellent one piece barstem that now comes standard on the Toa, and I trust Chapter2's engineering a lot (it's not their first company, they came from NeilPryde which produced some good bikes), my Rere handles like a dream. The Toa frame set is not as expensive as it appears considering the price now comes with the barstem and seatpost. As to aero testing the company claims to test at a New Zealand university wind tunnel, but the new aero model is the Koko, not the all arounder Toa which sounds closer to what you want.

The Orbea will take size 32 tires very easily (that's what I use) which renders it very stable, and Orbea may still have the no extra charge custom paint coloring. It rides very stiff due to massive chain stays and a stiff heavy (220 g) stem. That being said the size 32 tires ameliorate the stiffness so it's comfortable overall.

As to geometry my two bikes are practically identical to the former SL6 which I liked a lot (I rely on stack and reach and that has never let me down). As to bento box storage I had that on my Cervelo Aspero, it's the opposite of having a sporty bike.

I've read you earlier comments about Orbea and Chapter2.
I can agree, Toa ends up cheaper than Tarmac (I'm talking about regular, non-S-works). I'm less worrking about model being "All round" and koko being dedicated aero model. I'd probably get bigger improvemens from working on my own flexibility, rather swapping from one model to another one.

I'm ok with stiff ride, as I'm planning to get most of compliance from tires/wheels. Stiff frame at 70 kilos and stiff at my 95 are two different things. I'd prefer stiff frame over a noodle.

Disagree on bento box: seems useful to have a neat box behind stem. There's almost always some space (excet Cervelo S5). If I could I'd add rivets to almost all the bikes: bento box plus 3rd cage on downtube and let people 3d pring own cages/boxes. Adds few grams but gives extra options. I like BMC Roadmachine in that regards, they got nice box available. Too bad that they have 644mm stack on 61cm model, it was 617/633 on previous model.

[Stendhal]

The new Toa specs the frame as relatively heavy, but that's not too much an issue for you. My Rere has the same excellent one piece barstem that now comes standard on the Toa, and I trust Chapter2's engineering a lot (it's not their first company, they came from NeilPryde which produced some good bikes), my Rere handles like a dream. The Toa frame set is not as expensive as it appears considering the price now comes with the barstem and seatpost. As to aero testing the company claims to test at a New Zealand university wind tunnel, but the new aero model is the Koko, not the all arounder Toa which sounds closer to what you want.

The Orbea will take size 32 tires very easily (that's what I use) which renders it very stable, and Orbea may still have the no extra charge custom paint coloring. It rides very stiff due to massive chain stays and a stiff heavy (220 g) stem. That being said the size 32 tires ameliorate the stiffness so it's comfortable overall.

As to geometry my two bikes are practically identical to the former SL6 which I liked a lot (I rely on stack and reach and that has never let me down). As to bento box storage I had that on my Cervelo Aspero, it's the opposite of having a sporty bike.

I've read you earlier comments about Orbea and Chapter2.
I can agree, Toa ends up cheaper than Tarmac (I'm talking about regular, non-S-works). I'm less worrking about model being "All round" and koko being dedicated aero model. I'd probably get bigger improvemens from working on my own flexibility, rather swapping from one model to another one.

I'm ok with stiff ride, as I'm planning to get most of compliance from tires/wheels. Stiff frame at 70 kilos and stiff at my 95 are two different things. I'd prefer stiff frame over a noodle.

Disagree on bento box: seems useful to have a neat box behind stem. There's almost always some space (excet Cervelo S5). If I could I'd add rivets to almost all the bikes: bento box plus 3rd cage on downtube and let people 3d pring own cages/boxes. Adds few grams but gives extra options. I like BMC Roadmachine in that regards, they got nice box available. Too bad that they have 644mm stack on 61cm model, it was 617/633 on previous model.

I push 100 kilos more or less so I hear you! That's actually why 2 of my favorite bikes have been the aero-designed Rere and an earlier Ridley Noah sadly destroyed in a crash. They both have airfoil down tubes and the side benefit is they end up heavier but stiffer so that the bike's not a noodle which I can't stand.

i'm no expert in over ten years of riding high end bikes, in my very subjective experience the single biggest factor adding "aero" quality has been the handlebar. I used the same one piece, narrow leading edge barstem on a Dogma and an SL6 and it seemed to help both bikes cut through the air. That's why the Mana barstem would help on aero even on a Toa. My Orca has a conventionally shaped bar and does not have that effect.

[dadaist]

Just get new specialised. I find it hard to believe any other company can deliver as good a product... years of design, manufactured a gazillion frames.

otherwise.. just ride what u got.. it ain't so bad

They are not manufacturing those frames. AFAIK its Merida that manufactures them.

[TLN]

Have you considered a Factor Ostro? I did a ton of research as well and was originally considering an SL7 as well, but ended up going with factor.

I was really put off by specialized's handling of the steerer tube recall, and in general their recent tendency to completely price gouge. The bike went up from around $14K/15k CAD to now almost $18K in the space of a year. Ridiculous.

And then on the flip side, there was a lot that appealed to me about Factor and the Ostro.

Definitely much better value I think when you look at all the parts. Great customization options too, great customer service (had several great connects with their people so far, including a couple responses from the ceo), and the bikes are very well reviewed and raced at a high level. I don't have mine yet so we'll see of course, but from everything I looked at, they seemed like one of the best options out there.

I checked website, found 61cm frame with 611/409 reach/stach and thought I'm crazy. Later found Cyclingtips article here: https://cyclingtips.com/2020/09/factor- ... de-review/

Factor will only offer the Ostro VAM in a choice of five frame sizes. Notably, tall riders requiring a 61 cm frame are currently out of luck.

That was the reason I've excluded it from the list, but with 61cm frame available, it seems that it's back.
While Factor looks like great option, it goes for $5500 frame only, or $10k for build with Force (without powermeter). I know frameset comes with ceramic speeed BB, but it's still, almost double, compared to other bikes.

[Roadbiker10]

Is there really any difference in stiffness between the first and second tier carbon frames? I think I read somewhere that weight is the only difference.

[Hexsense]

/Blanket statement
Depend. Most of the brand/model, it's just weight.
Some brand/model, 2nd tier is stiffer because they went a bit too far on making 1st tier light.

In all brand though, durability is higher on 2nd tier heavier carbon.

Hi-mod is stiffer (but not really more durable) than non hi-mod carbon. So, they can use less carbon on 1st tier making it lighter for the same stiffness.
But less carbon of stiffer type isn't as durable as "more of" flexier carbon type.