About Cervelo S5 2023

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Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:35 pm
proffate wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:27 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:56 am
proffate wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:17 am


Because of the low stack height?
Because Cervelo did the calculations before releasing the last bike because they knew people would need to be able to compare the S5 to other bikes.

A Cervelo V stem with for instance 100mm -6 written on it behaves the same way as a conventional 100mm -6 stem would on the geometry chart of the bike.
This is a rather uncritical way of understanding the world. Nevertheless, thanks for the answer.

The stem is obviously not -6* so their geo chart must measure to the top of the stem rather than the bottom.
Standard stack of a stem used to be 40mm. So if you use a stem calculator i would suggest you just set -6 degree and stem stack 40-42mm.
That should put you in the region.
And be aware there's a 1cm bearing cap calculated for as well. So it's frame stack, plus 1cm cap, plus 40mm stack -6 stem, plus however many spacers you want to use.

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Karvalo wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:17 am
wheelsONfire wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:35 pm
proffate wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:27 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:56 am

Because Cervelo did the calculations before releasing the last bike because they knew people would need to be able to compare the S5 to other bikes.

A Cervelo V stem with for instance 100mm -6 written on it behaves the same way as a conventional 100mm -6 stem would on the geometry chart of the bike.
This is a rather uncritical way of understanding the world. Nevertheless, thanks for the answer.

The stem is obviously not -6* so their geo chart must measure to the top of the stem rather than the bottom.
Standard stack of a stem used to be 40mm. So if you use a stem calculator i would suggest you just set -6 degree and stem stack 40-42mm.
That should put you in the region.
And be aware there's a 1cm bearing cap calculated for as well. So it's frame stack, plus 1cm cap, plus 40mm stack -6 stem, plus however many spacers you want to use.
So if i understand you correct you mean that a 56 size frame with stack 565mm will be 575mm + spacers, but you can't get it lower than 575mm stack + stem?
That would also reduce reach by 3mm approximatedly! It seems weird!
Thanks for telling, i might add that question to my others when i send my mail.
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cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

Karvalo wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:15 am
cajer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:19 pm
Seems to be +6 degree as there's no negative in the link below.

https://imgur.com/a/O1eo56z
It doesn't matter what angle the V stem's arms actually rise at* because the attachment point to the frame is already so different to everything else. If you want to compare it to any other bike setup, call it a -6. That's how it's been designed to work, and it does work.

And the conventional stem in the overlay you linked is clearly on a negative angle.

* It will be different for every stem length anyway, even though they all behave like a -6.
I agree with everything in that statement. Expect I'm not sure it behaves like a -6 degree, as there isn't "-" in front of the 6 in that document.

Also the picture I linked clearly says 5mm not 10mm dust cap.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

Image

maybe this will help
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TobinHatesYou
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by TobinHatesYou

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 am
Karvalo wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:17 am
And be aware there's a 1cm bearing cap calculated for as well. So it's frame stack, plus 1cm cap, plus 40mm stack -6 stem, plus however many spacers you want to use.
So if i understand you correct you mean that a 56 size frame with stack 565mm will be 575mm + spacers, but you can't get it lower than 575mm stack + stem?
That would also reduce reach by 3mm approximatedly! It seems weird!
Thanks for telling, i might add that question to my others when i send my mail.

Whether an integrated headset bearing cover is included in the stack measurement is up to the manufacturer. I have measured the stack of my Madone SLR, and the 563mm value includes the bearing cover. On something like my previous generation Emonda I have to add the 5mm from my Cane Creek SlamSet… 9mm or 15mm bearing covers were the norm for years on retail bikes.

Previously the S5 had a “low” stem option equivalent to a -17deg (it may have been pro-only…) I’m sure it still exists.
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mrbrown4001
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 am

by mrbrown4001

TobinHatesYou wrote:
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 am
Karvalo wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:17 am
And be aware there's a 1cm bearing cap calculated for as well. So it's frame stack, plus 1cm cap, plus 40mm stack -6 stem, plus however many spacers you want to use.
So if i understand you correct you mean that a 56 size frame with stack 565mm will be 575mm + spacers, but you can't get it lower than 575mm stack + stem?
That would also reduce reach by 3mm approximatedly! It seems weird!
Thanks for telling, i might add that question to my others when i send my mail.

Whether an integrated headset bearing cover is included in the stack measurement is up to the manufacturer. I have measured the stack of my Madone SLR, and the 563mm value includes the bearing cover. On something like my previous generation Emonda I have to add the 5mm from my Cane Creek SlamSet… 9mm or 15mm bearing covers were the norm for years on retail bikes.

Previously the S5 had a “low” stem option equivalent to a -17deg (it may have been pro-only…) I’m sure it still exists.
Would love to see pictures from the front. It looks like the v-hole is completely blocked with a stem that low


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Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

wheelsONfire wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 12:52 am
So if i understand you correct you mean that a 56 size frame with stack 565mm will be 575mm + spacers, but you can't get it lower than 575mm stack + stem?
That would also reduce reach by 3mm approximatedly! It seems weird!
Yes - but it's not really weird, it's how almost every conventional bike has always worked (apart from the ability to fit different angle stems).

And in fact there are a lot of other internally routed bikes out there tyese days that have a lot more unavoidable stack added. Look at an Orbea and the combination of the bearing cover and under stem cable guide adds about 20 - 25mm on top of the frame stack and it has to be there.

Karvalo
Posts: 3444
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

cajer wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:30 am
I agree with everything in that statement. Expect I'm not sure it behaves like a -6 degree, as there isn't "-" in front of the 6 in that document.
It is. It really, really, honestly, genuinely is.

They didn't bother writing the minus sign because they assumed you knew they're not batshit *f##k* crazy enough to replicate the position of a positive angle stem in their top level sprinters / crit racers bike.

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

mrbrown4001 wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:41 am

Would love to see pictures from the front. It looks like the v-hole is completely blocked with a stem that low

And in that case, such blockage wouldn't matter at all.

FlatlandClimber
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

There were definitely a few weird lloking iterations with super long reach and low rise for pros.

Image
Image
Image

I think at that point the V-shaped design fails and a standard integrated stem makes a ton more sense.
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Karvalo
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by Karvalo

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 9:14 am
I think at that point the V-shaped design fails and a standard integrated stem makes a ton more sense.
Any reason why better given that a lot of other more normal looking integrated bar/stems are still proprietary? (Apart from Cervelo P&A availability being really bad this year)

That said the team were Pro sponsored when the last gen S5 came out and some riders did use the bolt on steerer tube part to run standard Pro stems and bars instead of the V.

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

56cm with ultegra 8.03kg sans pedals.. I hope the wheelset is 1800g :). otherwise my interest has wained.
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GeaerGrimsrud
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by GeaerGrimsrud

spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 pm
56cm with ultegra 8.03kg sans pedals.. I hope the wheelset is 1800g :). otherwise my interest has wained.
The Canyon Aeroad is a much better value and a little lighter. You just have to have a strong stomach for recalls and vaporware-like availability.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5791
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

GeaerGrimsrud wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 10:29 pm
spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:21 pm
56cm with ultegra 8.03kg sans pedals.. I hope the wheelset is 1800g :). otherwise my interest has wained.
The Canyon Aeroad is a much better value and a little lighter. You just have to have a strong stomach for recalls and vaporware-like availability.
I'm not keen on the cockpit of the Aeroroad, it really does not fit my eye so its not in the running regardless of cost.
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2019 Parlee Z0XD - "classified"
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GeaerGrimsrud
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:06 pm

by GeaerGrimsrud

spdntrxi wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 11:55 pm
I'm not keen on the cockpit of the Aeroroad, it really does not fit my eye so its not in the running regardless of cost.
This place is amazing.

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