Alpinist CLX sold as tubeless and a crash

[sigma]

Getting back onto topic. I was riding with a friend this weekend who was on a Cervelo Caledonia-5 Sram Red AXS setup with Zipp 303 S wheels. As I looked at his bike, I was surprised to see he was running Vittoria tires. I have a set of 303 FC and had just gone through Sram's approved list of tires, and I did not recall them being on there. Sure enough, he told me the shop had set it up like that and since I knew the owner of the shop and his mechanic (pro guy who wrenches for Raleigh), I looked further and indeed Cervelo sells the bike like that. I sent an email to Cervelo tonight inquiring whether they had done or were aware of any additional testing by Vittoria on the compatability of these tires to the hookless rims. Then I found this little nugget on the Sram page:

" Zipp 303 S rims are compatible with tubeless or tubeless-ready tires unless the tire manufacturer specifically prohibits the use of their products on tubeless hookless (straight side) rims. Check out our current updated list of tires that brands have communicated are compatible with Zipp hookless wheels on our Hookless Tire Compatibility page."

So, has anyone run the Corsa Control TLR hookless? And based on this information, since there is no omission from Vittoria, would you assume these are fine to use?

[TobinHatesYou]

So, has anyone run the Corsa Control TLR hookless? And based on this information, since there is no omission from Vittoria, would you assume these are fine to use?

That's Zipp's policy. As long as you stay under 73psi and the tubeless tire isn't expressly labeled as hookless incompatible, then you can use it with their hookless rims. Not all compatible tires are on the approved list.

[dmetzinger]

Foam liners hardly add any weight at all and provide additional benefits. You can safely ride down to about 30psi on a 25mm tire with minimal rolling resistance losses. They firm up the tire so that you can corner on that 30psi with it feeling more like 50psi. They’re great for salvaging races that would otherwise end in a DNF or finish DFL.

You have 2 types, open and closed foam-cells inserts, the second crunch under air-pressure, then don't interfere with the tire under normal pressure (no rolling resistance impact), but I understood that they also make almost impossible to remove the tire without cutting it, meaning you can't really rotate your tires or access to fix anything.

I have enough failed attempts installing "airliners" closed foam type you speak of.. they are a little hard to take out, but it's possible. Then the tire can be removed like normal, no need to cut the tire.

I'm letting my new tires "stretch" for another attempt at install.

I set up my Rapides with Vittoria tire liners and Hutchinson TLR tires (not my first tire choice but sometimes availability is truly the best ability as they say in pro sports) quickly and easily. I had to remove the rear tire due to my own stupidity as I had set up the directional tread the wrong way. It wasn't necessarily easy to remove the tire but not hard either - no damage to the tire or liner at all. However, I hadn't put sealant in yet but I imagine it would be messy and difficult to tube up if needed - hopefully a plug shouldn't pose a problem. I feel just as safe on this set up as rolling with tubes and 23mm clinchers "back in the day." I remember flatting on a long descent (Mt Ham almost into Livermore for fellow N Cal'ers) with about 10 in my group and being on the rim instantly with the clincher starting to roll off. Luckily I managed to keep it up and not crash anyone else out but I would've been on the ground instantly if it happened in a tight corner. Let's not forget that a flat on any type of tire (even well-glued tubs, ask Joseba Beloki) can cause a catastrophic roll off. I'm not saying the shop should sell bikes set up TL on wheels that are clearly marked non TL, I wouldn't do that if I owned a shop for liability reasons alone.

[hoosierdaddy]

Getting back onto topic. I was riding with a friend this weekend who was on a Cervelo Caledonia-5 Sram Red AXS setup with Zipp 303 S wheels. As I looked at his bike, I was surprised to see he was running Vittoria tires. I have a set of 303 FC and had just gone through Sram's approved list of tires, and I did not recall them being on there. Sure enough, he told me the shop had set it up like that and since I knew the owner of the shop and his mechanic (pro guy who wrenches for Raleigh), I looked further and indeed Cervelo sells the bike like that. I sent an email to Cervelo tonight inquiring whether they had done or were aware of any additional testing by Vittoria on the compatability of these tires to the hookless rims. Then I found this little nugget on the Sram page:

" Zipp 303 S rims are compatible with tubeless or tubeless-ready tires unless the tire manufacturer specifically prohibits the use of their products on tubeless hookless (straight side) rims. Check out our current updated list of tires that brands have communicated are compatible with Zipp hookless wheels on our Hookless Tire Compatibility page."

So, has anyone run the Corsa Control TLR hookless? And based on this information, since there is no omission from Vittoria, would you assume these are fine to use?

I can unofficially confirm that the Corsa TLRs are compatible with the hookless Zipp rims. I know some Zipp guys personally and they've tested it and say it's safe, although it's not official on the Zipp website.

[guyc]

Someone spending that kind of $$$ should do their own research. It's widely know 1st gen is not tubeless. That being said they could probably win or settle out of court.

It's not imperative on a consumer to be an expert.

[Orlok]

Since opening this topic jun 23 we didn't hear from TS: @Huskies91 . . . . . ?

[sigma]

Getting back onto topic. I was riding with a friend this weekend who was on a Cervelo Caledonia-5 Sram Red AXS setup with Zipp 303 S wheels. As I looked at his bike, I was surprised to see he was running Vittoria tires. I have a set of 303 FC and had just gone through Sram's approved list of tires, and I did not recall them being on there. Sure enough, he told me the shop had set it up like that and since I knew the owner of the shop and his mechanic (pro guy who wrenches for Raleigh), I looked further and indeed Cervelo sells the bike like that. I sent an email to Cervelo tonight inquiring whether they had done or were aware of any additional testing by Vittoria on the compatability of these tires to the hookless rims. Then I found this little nugget on the Sram page:

" Zipp 303 S rims are compatible with tubeless or tubeless-ready tires unless the tire manufacturer specifically prohibits the use of their products on tubeless hookless (straight side) rims. Check out our current updated list of tires that brands have communicated are compatible with Zipp hookless wheels on our Hookless Tire Compatibility page."

So, has anyone run the Corsa Control TLR hookless? And based on this information, since there is no omission from Vittoria, would you assume these are fine to use?

I can unofficially confirm that the Corsa TLRs are compatible with the hookless Zipp rims. I know some Zipp guys personally and they've tested it and say it's safe, although it's not official on the Zipp website.

Cervelo customer support replied back with a terrific email explaining that both they and Vittoria had extensively tested the setup and confirmed compatability. Stated they had complete confidence. The email was refreshingly unambiguous and reminded that my own experiences with them have always been positive.

[irgccg]

I had a blow out yesterday on my 2022 ZIPP 404s. I was riding Schwalbe Pro Ones at the proper pressure when...BAM, hit a rock and the tire immedialy came off of the rim. Luckily I was slowing from a decent. A slight turn of the wheel was all it took to throw me off and into the road. I'm seriously reconsidering hookless wheels and technology.

[Orlok]

I had a blow out yesterday on my 2022 ZIPP 404s. I was riding Schwalbe Pro Ones at the proper pressure when...BAM, hit a rock and the tire immedialy came off of the rim. Luckily I was slowing from a decent. A slight turn of the wheel was all it took to throw me off and into the road. I'm seriously reconsidering hookless wheels and technology.

That's why they put airliners in it.!

[TLN]

I had a blow out yesterday on my 2022 ZIPP 404s. I was riding Schwalbe Pro Ones at the proper pressure when...BAM, hit a rock and the tire immedialy came off of the rim. Luckily I was slowing from a decent. A slight turn of the wheel was all it took to throw me off and into the road. I'm seriously reconsidering hookless wheels and technology.

That's why they put airliners in it.!

So you have to pay extra $50 and add extra 30 mil of sealant, cause you're technically increasing internal surface

[Orlok]

If it's for that you want more safety . . . . . why not.?

[tarmackev]

Love this thread.
I've ridden tubeless with no issues since 2014 and I've not really know any others peronally who've had problems, no more than standard clinchers or tubs.

Back to the OP.
It's impssoble to say whether a small stone or piece of glass punctured the tyre causing a catastrophic blow out, if the tyre was well worn and didnt have much structural rigidity left.
We all get flats and incredibly rare that you see what actually caused it.
I, like many others have worked in bike shops and had people take a bike home, ride it a day, get a flat and bring it back as its faulty. Even when you find a thron a piece of glass theyve gone over they'll "I wouldnt expect it to happen on a brand new bike, its not fit for purpose".
I'd be interested to see how this fares legally in the US. It could be quite a big deal and perhaps change a lot when it comes to wheels, tyres and liability.

[spdntrxi]

I had a blow out yesterday on my 2022 ZIPP 404s. I was riding Schwalbe Pro Ones at the proper pressure when...BAM, hit a rock and the tire immedialy came off of the rim. Luckily I was slowing from a decent. A slight turn of the wheel was all it took to throw me off and into the road. I'm seriously reconsidering hookless wheels and technology.

That's why they put airliners in it.!

I've broken tire irons and their clips installing these airliners.... a real treat.

[irgccg]

I've also been riding tubeless for years with no issue during a flat (even on "no name "cheap Chinese made rims) . However within 6 months of owning hookless rims I blow out and find myself in the middle of the street! My question is simply, are hookless rims as safe as hooked rims if one is limited to a small list of approved tires which if you don't use (knowingly or unknowingly) may cause catastrophic crash. Also, after puchasing a premium wheel set why should I have to buy a liner kit to be assured safety?

[TobinHatesYou]

I’m as big a tubeless fan as there is and I won’t buy hookless rims… there’s no reason to except to save a buck if they pass down the savings from lower manufacturing costs.

You’re absolutely certain this was a Pro One TLE though? Schwalbe now makes a Pro One clincher as well…(they didn’t with the last generation.)