Is there a market for hydraulic rim brake calipers?

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spartacus
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

A modern design that has a sram and shim option, so you can use new hydro groups on old bikes.

I am considering designing and producing them.

Would these sell?

Karvalo
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by Karvalo

Not really, or at least not yet. After all Sram and Shimano still offer all their latest groupsets (except Rival) with rim brake shifters.

If anything the demand for hydraulic rim brakes has gone down since more touring bikes will have discs now. Magura still sell to that market and the trials world afaik.

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tommyboyo
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by tommyboyo

spartacus wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:56 pm
A modern design that has a sram and shim option, so you can use new hydro groups on old bikes.

I am considering designing and producing them.

Would these sell?
But why?

What do they do that cable actuated don't?

EdWiser
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:50 pm

by EdWiser

Really not needed. Keep it simple.

Hexsense
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Location: USA

by Hexsense

Hydraulic main advantages:
1) Flexible hose, so it can route through frame easily. This doesn't benefit most existing frames design for cable rim brake. And small manufacturers can't influence frame makers to do full internal cable rim brake bike.
2) Easy to multiply leverage. But... rim brake lever cable pull and brake caliper leverage ratio are normally paired well already. More leverage is actually detrimental as it trade pad clearance for power.
Rim can't take too much hydraulic clamping force. Rim don't remain true enough to run pads super close to the rim. So, using very high leverage like disc brake doesn't work.
3) Less transmission loss, this benefit is still here.

spartacus
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

tommyboyo wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:12 pm

What do they do that cable actuated don't?
work with hydro shifters

spartacus
Posts: 1049
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

Running the hoses would probably require adapters to mount the hydro lines to approximately where the cables went using the old cable stops. That's the main drawback IMO

My other idea was building a module that goes under the stem or something that converts hydraulics to cable pull, then you run the cable from there as usual.

I'm not saying it's an amazing idea I'm just wondering if there would be a demand.

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Miller
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Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

If you want all the disadvantages of rim brakes and hydro brakes combined in one unit, then sure, otherwise an absolute nope. I'd be amazed if anyone was developing one of these at this stage.

tommyboyo
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:49 am

by tommyboyo

Miller wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:14 pm
If you want all the disadvantages of rim brakes and hydro brakes combined in one unit, then sure, otherwise an absolute nope. I'd be amazed if anyone was developing one of these at this stage.
This was kinda my thinking as well.

Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

spartacus wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:05 pm
tommyboyo wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:12 pm

What do they do that cable actuated don't?
work with hydro shifters
But again, you can still buy cable brake shifters for every road group except Rival AXS and they're cheaper than the hydros, so where's the market?

Karvalo
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Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

spartacus wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:10 pm
Running the hoses would probably require adapters to mount the hydro lines to approximately where the cables went using the old cable stops. That's the main drawback IMO

My other idea was building a module that goes under the stem or something that converts hydraulics to cable pull, then you run the cable from there as usual.
Giant did the opposite of that to run cable shifters with hydro disc brakes on its cheapest bikes, it looked awful. I'm not sure where you've got the idea there's a new gap in the market for doing it the other way around. People who want rim brakes are buying rim brake shifters same as they always have.

PoorCyclist
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Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

The new Shimano DA if you want wireless it only comes in hydro only.
I am thinking the next Sram will not support cable brakes.

spartacus
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

PoorCyclist wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:18 pm
The new Shimano DA if you want wireless it only comes in hydro only.
I am thinking the next Sram will not support cable brakes.
This is what I mean. I feel like someone would want these right?

raggedtrousers
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:29 pm

by raggedtrousers

You'd go for rim brakes if you want light weight, low maintenance and simplicity and aren't that fussed about braking power. Rim brake power is limited by the rim surface, especially in the wet on carbon rims.You also have limited clearance.

Now if you're quite light and ride somewhere dry and without genuine mountains, cable operated rim brakes are just fine. But change just one of those 3 variables and discs have an advantage. Change 2+ and it's not even close.

I don't see hydro rim brakes as addressing any of the issues, but they would take away the biggest benefits.

I still happily ride a rim brake bike for most summer rides, and plan on keeping one in rotation indefinitely, but as a whole, the industry has moved on.

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stevesbike
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by stevesbike

spartacus wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:55 pm
PoorCyclist wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:18 pm
The new Shimano DA if you want wireless it only comes in hydro only.
I am thinking the next Sram will not support cable brakes.
This is what I mean. I feel like someone would want these right?
I run hydro22 shifters on my gravel bike (I like the simplicity of cable shifting on gravel/traveling) so I could see a possibility of being able to swap these out onto one of my road frames with rim brakes. Biggest issue as you mentioned would be cable stops/internal routing that would require at least grommets for various bikes.

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