Gp5000 s tr tubeless vs. Gp5000 clincher latex

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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warthog101
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101


yingyu wrote:
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 1:01 pm
BigBoyND wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 12:45 pm
yingyu wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:19 pm

Hookless rims are generally lighter and wider than hooked ones but they must pair with tubeless tires.
Lighter? If you multiply the size of a hook with the density of carbon you'll get like 5g for two rims, which is less than the mfg variance between two identical rims. And that's if the wall below the hook is unchanged (often not the case).

The hookless weight argument doesn't pass the sniff test at all.
He is still correct though. Hookless rims are generally pretty light.
I agree that the carbon form the hook can hardly be a relevant influence here. However, SRAM has shed loads of weight on the Hookless rims of the latest gen, while the 858 and 808 have remained heavy.
The Extralite rims are probably the lightest TL disc brake rims there are, and they are hookless. I guess there is more to the construction in hookless, that helps shed weight.
Right I was thinking the current generation of Zipp 303/353/404/454 wheels. If we look at Farsports https://www.wheelsfar.com/feder-27mm-28 ... p0119.html example, the 35mm-deep hooked set weighs 1390g, while the hookless set weighs 1330g, which is 60g less.

According to https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/prod ... hem-468466, rim hooks require soft silicone tools so the tools can be pulled out after curing carbon. OTOH hookless rim walls can be compressed by steel tools to achieve better precision.

I tend to think hooked tubeless-ready rims pay the extra weight to have tubed/tubeless compatibility. Without that compromise, we see lighter wheels e.g. tube-only gen 1 Roval Rapide/Alpinist or hookless Zipp / Cadex.
wooger wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 4:59 pm
yingyu wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 10:19 pm
It depends on road quality. On rough roads, tubeless allows lower pressure without pinch flat risks. On smooth and clean roads latex tubes would be a simpler setup.
I'm not sure anyone's getting pinch flats on road at close to the recommended pressures anyway, I certainly never have. Silca & SRAM calculators only suggest ~2 PSI difference lower for tubeless anyway, probably within the measurement error on most gauges.
My friend pinch-flatted the front tire when crossing rails at 40 km/h. I don't know if he pumped the latex tubes correctly but given the high leak rate of latex it's a real risk. SRAM calculator (https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure) suggests hookless tubeless setup at ~5psi lower than tubes setup (25mm rims, 28c tires, 62kg rider). I run 3 psi lower than SRAM's recommendation on my local roads, mesaured by a digital pressure gauge. Enve (https://www.enve.com/learn/tire-pressure/) recommends even lower pressures. Optimal tire pressures depend on wheels and personal preferences. YMMV.

I used to run latex tubes in 2020 but began to experience punctures caused by car tire wires entering 2021 (economic recovery?). Around that time Zipp came up with hookless 353 NSW, so I switched to tubeless. Tubeless has its share of troubles but Dynaplugs work most of the time.
Plenty of knuckleheads doing tyre destroying burnouts around here Image
Some time ago my rear GP5KTL was losing more air than normal. A bit softer after a few days.
Anyway, inspected the tyre and found 2 bits of tyre wire embedded in it.
Pulled them out and let the sealant do its work again.
Sold on tubeless there Image

by Weenie


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charirider
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 am

by charirider

Clincher + light butyl tube, like panaracer r-air or michelin light
SuperSix EVO Dura-Ace 2018 (raw carbon stripped)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10093
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

I've pinch flatted tubeless tires at 85 psi in races, so lol at doubting pinch flats happen at recommended pressures. Now at races where I know there are deep potholes a'plenty, I run 95psi on 25mm tubeless. It's not comfy, but it means I'm much less likely to snakebite on a shitty pothole. I'm in the low 60s kg range.

And yes, tubeless all the way.

MikeD
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

What do you guys do when your tubeless rear tire wears out, and you want to rotate the good front to the rear? I spent a lot of time removing dried Orange Seal from my tire beads. I honestly wonder if I'm spending more time dicking with tubeless than with tubes, even considering I get less flats with tubeless. There's a lot more time checking and topping off sealant, dealing with clogged valve cores, the mess, cost of sealant and higher cost of tires, etc.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

Last year I had a lot of flats. Probably more than all the flats I have ever had. Not certain why.

Everytime I read tubeless threads, I always wonder if tubeless does just take away more time. I do understand people open up threads to complain about something or to solve a problem they have.

I do believe at some point, I will go tubeless but I've always wondered if the additional time needed for maintenance will be worth it.

Lina
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

MikeD wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:48 pm
What do you guys do when your tubeless rear tire wears out, and you want to rotate the good front to the rear? I spent a lot of time removing dried Orange Seal from my tire beads. I honestly wonder if I'm spending more time dicking with tubeless than with tubes, even considering I get less flats with tubeless. There's a lot more time checking and topping off sealant, dealing with clogged valve cores, the mess, cost of sealant and higher cost of tires, etc.
Replace the rear tire? No point rotating tires.

Mocs123
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

Whether tubeless is worth it or not probably depends on what sort of conditions you ride in and how often you flat. If you're somewhere with a lot of thorns, glass, goatheads, tubeless is probably worth it, if you don't flat often it's probably not. Currently I have one bike set up tubeless (GP5000S-TR) and one bike set up with latex tubes (GP5000) and have about 1,400 miles (2,250km) on each since the first of the year. I've had two flats on the GP5000's and no flats on the GP5000S-TR's. It's not really an apples to apples comparison though as the tubed tires are on the bike I generally ride with wet roads, which increase the chances of punctures.

I keep going back and forth as to whether I am going to go tubeless on both bikes or go back to tubes on both when these tires wear out. For whatever it's worth most of my cycling club has gone tubeless, though I don't know why as flats on group rides were always pretty rare.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2017 Trek Domane SLR-7 Disc - 8.36kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 3775
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I was a skeptic like a lot of you. Then I switched to tubeless and I’ll never go back to tubes. The benefits far outweigh the costs.


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MikeD
Posts: 829
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:55 pm

by MikeD

Lina wrote:
MikeD wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:48 pm
What do you guys do when your tubeless rear tire wears out, and you want to rotate the good front to the rear? I spent a lot of time removing dried Orange Seal from my tire beads. I honestly wonder if I'm spending more time dicking with tubeless than with tubes, even considering I get less flats with tubeless. There's a lot more time checking and topping off sealant, dealing with clogged valve cores, the mess, cost of sealant and higher cost of tires, etc.
Replace the rear tire? No point rotating tires.
I could do that but I wouldn't get my money's worth out of the front tire and I'd be spending more on tires overall. It would die from casing rot, rubber cracks, and cuts rather than wearing out the tread. It's also safer to have the newer tire on the front.

yingyu
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:16 am

by yingyu

MikeD wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 2:48 pm
What do you guys do when your tubeless rear tire wears out, and you want to rotate the good front to the rear? I spent a lot of time removing dried Orange Seal from my tire beads. I honestly wonder if I'm spending more time dicking with tubeless than with tubes, even considering I get less flats with tubeless. There's a lot more time checking and topping off sealant, dealing with clogged valve cores, the mess, cost of sealant and higher cost of tires, etc.
I usually need to replenish Orange Seal Regular a few times before wearing out a tire, so I swap tires at same time. Sealant dries up in roughly fixed amount of time so the garage work is more worthwhile the more you ride.

Mocs123
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

To answer the OP's question - per BRR you are right the GP5000 with a 80g latex tube is the fastest combination, slightly faster than the GP5000S-TR, but the delta is half a watt.

GP5000 – Latex – 8.9 watts
GP5000 – Butyl (Continental Race) – 10.7 watts
GP5000S-TR – Tubeless with Sealant - 9.2 watts
GP5000S-TR – Latex Tubes – 9.4 watts
GP5000S-TR – Butyl (Continental Race Lite) – 10.5 watts
GP5000S-TR – Butyl (Continental Race) – 11.3 watts
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2017 Trek Domane SLR-7 Disc - 8.36kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg

petromyzon
Posts: 780
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

Butcher wrote:
Wed May 25, 2022 3:07 pm
Last year I had a lot of flats. Probably more than all the flats I have ever had. Not certain why.

Everytime I read tubeless threads, I always wonder if tubeless does just take away more time. I do understand people open up threads to complain about something or to solve a problem they have.

I do believe at some point, I will go tubeless but I've always wondered if the additional time needed for maintenance will be worth it.
It doesn't need to be a huge amount of extra time. With a bit of experience and a more relaxed atttitude it's fine. Mostly just shifts maintenance from the roadside to the workshop.
That said I'm moving away from it on my lesser-used nice conditions bikes. For gravel or all-road type stuff it's essential now IMO.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

Can I run GP5000TL (sealant) with GP5000 (latex inner) together?
How about GP5000TL (sealant) with GP5000STR (sealant)?

Why? Can't find TL anymore and my front tire still in great shape.

Mocs123
Posts: 458
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 9:19 pm

by Mocs123

Sure. I know a couple of people in my club that run a tube in one tire and tubeless in the other due to a hole they couldn't get to seal in a tubeless tire. Mix and match all you want to - I don't know of any reason why you shouldn't.

The TL has been discontinued, so that's probably why you can't find another one.
2015 Wilier Zero.7 Rim - 6.37kg
2017 Trek Domane SLR-7 Disc - 8.36kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg

alanyu
Posts: 989
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

For those who ride rim brake in hilly/mountain aeras, latex is not a choice, no?

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