105 2x12 - R7170 (R7150) / R7120 (R7100) - di2 / mechanical (MY2024)

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AlexWCS
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:42 am

by AlexWCS

Shimano EU site currently down for maintenance. Back online at 18:00 CET.......possibly the reveal of the new groupset??
Edit - info on 105 Di2 now live - https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... no105.html
Attachments
shima.JPG
Last edited by AlexWCS on Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


by Weenie


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dadaist
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 8:54 am

by dadaist

Where are rim brakes and where is mechanical 105?

Hope they don't copy SRAM Rival with everything electronic and disc.

dadaist
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 8:54 am

by dadaist

And the whole thing weighs 3kg hahaha.

I guess in the future it's Chorus if I need/want to upgrade from my R7000 rim brake.

MasterBean
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:18 pm

by MasterBean

Can you use an Ultegra 11-30 cassette with the 105 rear derailleur? The website says it has a max of 36 and min of 34.

The 11-36 cassette is like a 10 speed 11-28 with two gears added on top. Quite good I think.

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk


rollinslow
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

I wonder if it has an easy to access hook so I can attach it to my boat this weekend. Ideally with frame attached so I can make sure I don't float away.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523

dadaist
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 8:54 am

by dadaist

rollinslow wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:37 pm
I wonder if it has an easy to access hook so I can attach it to my boat this weekend. Ideally with frame attached so I can make sure I don't float away.
Is your rival too light so you need a second anchor?

Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

dadaist wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Where are rim brakes and where is mechanical 105?

Hope they don't copy SRAM Rival with everything electronic and disc.
Nowhere to be seen. 105 is a really popular groupset for manufacturers to put on bikes, I assume most of their bike sales are around the 105 mechanical or rival axs equiped bikes. Shimano tries to enter the axs rival market now.
Considering that the ultegra 12speed rim brake uses, what looks like, the old ultegra di2 shifter design, I am not sure if they are going to give a rim brake 105 version.
And about that mechanical shifting 105, I think that will be stuck on 11 speed. Shimano has no 12 speed mechanical groupsets (on road side anyways), and developing it would cost a good amount of r&d money. They are just going to keep the 11 speed 105 and ultegra for mechanical rim brakes.
The industry is now trying to sell 3000 euro/dollar/pounds "entry" level 105 di2 and rival axs bikes, with total integration and proprietary parts, to new riders anyways.

I am happy that the include the 36tooth cassette as a default, but I would much rather have a subcompact crankset instead, something like what they did with GRX instead.

Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

MasterBean wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:29 pm
Can you use an Ultegra 11-30 cassette with the 105 rear derailleur? The website says it has a max of 36 and min of 34.

The 11-36 cassette is like a 10 speed 11-28 with two gears added on top. Quite good I think.

Sent from my COL-L29 using Tapatalk
My girlfriend uses a 11-40 cassette on 105 r7000.
So I think that a 11-30 cassette will be usable with a 105 derrailleur. That's just shimano saying "we didn't desing it for that"

rollinslow
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

dadaist wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:38 pm
rollinslow wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:37 pm
I wonder if it has an easy to access hook so I can attach it to my boat this weekend. Ideally with frame attached so I can make sure I don't float away.
Is your rival too light so you need a second anchor?
Rival didn't meet the quality standards needed to properly anchor my boat even though it had the weight for it :)
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523

dadaist
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue May 03, 2022 8:54 am

by dadaist

Treptay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:39 pm
dadaist wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Where are rim brakes and where is mechanical 105?

Hope they don't copy SRAM Rival with everything electronic and disc.
Nowhere to be seen. 105 is a really popular groupset for manufacturers to put on bikes, I assume most of their bike sales are around the 105 mechanical or rival axs equiped bikes. Shimano tries to enter the axs rival market now.
Considering that the ultegra 12speed rim brake uses, what looks like, the old ultegra di2 shifter design, I am not sure if they are going to give a rim brake 105 version.
And about that mechanical shifting 105, I think that will be stuck on 11 speed. Shimano has no 12 speed mechanical groupsets (on road side anyways), and developing it would cost a good amount of r&d money. They are just going to keep the 11 speed 105 and ultegra for mechanical rim brakes.
The industry is now trying to sell 3000 euro/dollar/pounds "entry" level 105 di2 and rival axs bikes, with total integration and proprietary parts, to new riders anyways.

I am happy that the include the 36tooth cassette as a default, but I would much rather have a subcompact crankset instead, something like what they did with GRX instead.
Sadly looks like the way things are going. 3000 dollar is likely not gonna be enough.

I recently got a new bike. Originally I was looking at disc and electronic bikes as well. Minimum is roughly 4 grands to get sth nice (with rival)
In the end I settled for a Giant TCR with rim brakes 105. It's under 2 grands, and ways 500g less than those that cost twice as much.

I literally don't understand the consumer benefit. Surely, electronic and disc is nice. But literally pay double to get a heavier bike that shifts and brakes marginally better?

On the top end I understand it. If you pay 10k, everything is light enough that you get a light bike, and then disc brakes help with having nice carbon rims and electronic with total integration.

But for customers in the middle of the market, those that want a 7-8kg race bike with good performance for 2-4k literally have no choice anymore.

Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

dadaist wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:46 pm
Treptay wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:39 pm
dadaist wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:16 pm
Where are rim brakes and where is mechanical 105?

Hope they don't copy SRAM Rival with everything electronic and disc.
Nowhere to be seen. 105 is a really popular groupset for manufacturers to put on bikes, I assume most of their bike sales are around the 105 mechanical or rival axs equiped bikes. Shimano tries to enter the axs rival market now.
Considering that the ultegra 12speed rim brake uses, what looks like, the old ultegra di2 shifter design, I am not sure if they are going to give a rim brake 105 version.
And about that mechanical shifting 105, I think that will be stuck on 11 speed. Shimano has no 12 speed mechanical groupsets (on road side anyways), and developing it would cost a good amount of r&d money. They are just going to keep the 11 speed 105 and ultegra for mechanical rim brakes.
The industry is now trying to sell 3000 euro/dollar/pounds "entry" level 105 di2 and rival axs bikes, with total integration and proprietary parts, to new riders anyways.

I am happy that the include the 36tooth cassette as a default, but I would much rather have a subcompact crankset instead, something like what they did with GRX instead.
Sadly looks like the way things are going. 3000 dollar is likely not gonna be enough.

I recently got a new bike. Originally I was looking at disc and electronic bikes as well. Minimum is roughly 4 grands to get sth nice (with rival)
In the end I settled for a Giant TCR with rim brakes 105. It's under 2 grands, and ways 500g less than those that cost twice as much.

I literally don't understand the consumer benefit. Surely, electronic and disc is nice. But literally pay double to get a heavier bike that shifts and brakes marginally better?

On the top end I understand it. If you pay 10k, everything is light enough that you get a light bike, and then disc brakes help with having nice carbon rims and electronic with total integration.

But for customers in the middle of the market, those that want a 7-8kg race bike with good performance for 2-4k literally have no choice anymore.
I am a tech savvy person, and I still don't see the point of di2 and axs in it's current implementation.
The whole point of di2 and axs, in my opinion, should be the upgradeability and longevity.
The old 11 speed di2 stuff and the new 12speed di2 is only not compatible becuse they want to sell you the new stuff.
If they told me, "here, buy these expensive shifters, but we will support them for 3 groupset generations, you can upgrade your cassette, and chain for 12 speed and 13 speed later on, but the shifters and brakes will work", then I would consider buying it. You could argue that making the shifters now wireless doesn't make it compatible, but axs is full wireless and they just forgot about the old stuff.
I just see more ewaste in a few years, and here they had a great opportunity to create an electronic sustainable groupset, where you could upgrade the individual components to get more gears.

Knightyboy27
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm

by Knightyboy27

Weight comparison of a few like for likes
Attachments
Weight Comparison
Weight Comparison

by Weenie


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AW84
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Seems Shimano is in cahoots with the bike brands to render rim brakes obsolete, make us all buy a new bike. The majority of bikes on the road to this day are still rim, and with entry level and mid-range bikes creeping into the $7-10k range, you're going to see a lot more people keep/upgrade the bike they have. Surely Shimano recognizes the upgrade and repair market for these bikes, but it seems they have other motives.

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