105 2x12 - R7170 (R7150) / R7120 (R7100) - di2 / mechanical (MY2024)

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Karvalo
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

ooo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:51 am
yes, I think combination of ultegra deraileurs + 105 cassette = my guess it is hg+ 2.0 capable
This is the exact opposite of correct.
1) cassette geometry of 105/ultegra looks the same, all ramps and holes are the same
You can't say this unless you've been looking at the back side of the sprockets, because that's where HG+ machining is.
2) IF this combo "ultegra deraileurs + 105 cassette" was not capable of hg+ 2.0, then CS-R7100 should not be listed as compatible with ultegra/dura-ace FD/RD, but it is listed as compatible
No. There is absolutely no reason why a given rear mech will not work just fine with either an HG or HG+ cassette, no matter which one it is 'supposed' to pair with.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



ooo
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Karvalo,
Back of the cassette is the same, it is here 00:05 to 00:10:
https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/videos/cg2SHICComponent/360DegreeProductImage/CS-R7100-12-11-34T.mp4

d-a/ultegra derailleurs specced for fast hg+ 2.0 shifting, what you think will happend when you try to do shifting with max cage speed with 105 cassette?
105 cassette will allow max cage speed shifting settings or d-a/ultegra derailleur will fail?
if 105 cassette is listed as compatible with d-a/ultegra and it is not required to lower derailleur cage speed, cassette should be able to perform at hg+ 2.0 speed

Ritxis, last I heard it was not cancelled yet, planned for 2023, it will be announced closer to availability date
Last edited by ooo on Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:11 pm, edited 11 times in total.
'

bobones
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Karvalo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:21 am
It isn't. HG+, either road or MTB is just a chain+cassette technology.
I don't think this is entirely accurate as the Shimano docs clearly mention improved chain retention and front shifting speed as a feature of HG+. At the back I'd agree, it's chain and cassette tech, but at the front, this road incarnation of HG+ seems to be a combination of chain, chainring shaping, and derailleur movement/speed.

Whatever the case, it's clear that the docs for the CS-R7100 cassette and FD-R7150 FD do not mention HG+ at all.

User avatar
TerryDi2C
in the industry
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 pm
Contact:

by TerryDi2C

The interesting bit (IMO) is that while the cassette is listed as "HG" vs "HG+" for R9200/R8100 (https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/spec/ ... 20Sprocket), the cassette sprockets are actually interchangeable between R7100 and R8100/R9200.... EXCEPT the 17T and 19T

https://si.shimano.com/#/en/EV/CS-R7100

ooo
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

yes, this is one of the main arguments for hg+ 1.0 on 105 cassette. 17 and 19 have the same geometry too
17-19 is not listed, because Ultegra uses "Sprocket unit (17-19T)" - two sprockets on spider instead of individual sprockets

Image
Last edited by ooo on Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'

User avatar
TerryDi2C
in the industry
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:24 pm
Contact:

by TerryDi2C

Makes sense! I'll see if I can get some answers on this at Eurobike ;)

Karvalo
Posts: 3425
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

ooo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:19 pm
yes, this is one of the main arguments for hg+ 1.0 on 105 cassette. 17 and 19 have the same geometry too
Or it just means the mech doesn't care if it's shifting on HG+ sprockets it not, because why would it?

ooo
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

"b" compatibility means, that you can mix and match sprockets of ultegra and 105 cassette
it would shifter well on monster cassettes that was created from combination of sprockets:

11T from ultegra
12T from 105
13T from dura-ace
14T from 105
15T from ultegra
17T-19T from 105
21-24-27-30-34T from dura-ace
'

bobones
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

ooo wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:58 am
Ritxis, last I heard it was not cancelled yet, planned for 2023, it will be announced closer to availability date
Do you know if a rim-brake version is included in this potential mechanical release?

ooo
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

no rim brake
'

satanas
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:45 pm

by satanas

Boo, hiss!!!

cheapvega
Posts: 380
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

So disappointing. Just going to save up my pennies for R8050.

User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4456
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

cheapvega wrote:So disappointing. Just going to save up my pennies for R8050.
Why not mix Ultegra & 105? All you’d need from Ultegra would be the levers. Everything else from 7100 would be fine. Job done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AW84
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:04 am

by AW84

Maybe this has already been discussed, but what is the typical entry to mid level bike (aluminum wheels, bars, etc.) this comes spec'ed on going to weigh now? I assume the typical 105 mechanical rim brake bike was 17-18 lbs?

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



rollinslow
Posts: 864
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:25 am
Location: New York

by rollinslow

AW84 wrote:
Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:48 pm
Maybe this has already been discussed, but what is the typical entry to mid level bike (aluminum wheels, bars, etc.) this comes spec'ed on going to weigh now? I assume the typical 105 mechanical rim brake bike was 17-18 lbs?
Real weight with pedals you are definitely looking at 20lb plus range for a 105 di2 entry level disc bike.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523

Post Reply