New Michelin Power Cup Tubeless: GP5K S TR competitor

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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jcripps
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:39 pm

by jcripps

mathias720 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
You almost certainly cannot run non-tubeless tyres on hookless rims, even with a tube. This goes for any tyre I believe. You can run tubeless tyres with a tube but I believe you still have to respect the 73PSI maximum pressure.

The jury is still out on hookless compatibilty, but looks unlikely as 28c has minimum pressure of 73PSI which is the absolute max for a hookless setup

Aress
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:26 am

by Aress

C36 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:44 am
Aress wrote:I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all

Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Did you removed the thin waxy layer that is left after tire manufacturing? It is indeed slippery on the wet.
I did 200 km on them so i think the layer is gone

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pmprego
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

mathias720 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
What you said is contradictory. only a tubeless tire can be (or not) hookless compatible. A "lighter non tubeless power cup version" cannot be used as tubeless, either hooked or hookless. Careful.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Aress wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:50 am
I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all

Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Straight line grip or cornering grip?
If it's cornering, that may have something to do with tread width and tire shape.
Maybe the tread doesn't touch the road as surefoot as GP5000 with the tire profile on your rim.

wolflikeme
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:13 pm
Location: USA

by wolflikeme

ryanw wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:45 am
25mm Classic came out at 27.7mm on 21mm ID Rapdie's at 80psi.
Do you happen to know what 26c Turbo Cottons come out as on the Rapides ? Wondering if I go with 25 or 28c for the Power Cup.

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ryanw
in the industry
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
Location: London

by ryanw

wolflikeme wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:59 pm
ryanw wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:45 am
25mm Classic came out at 27.7mm on 21mm ID Rapdie's at 80psi.
Do you happen to know what 26c Turbo Cottons come out as on the Rapides ? Wondering if I go with 25 or 28c for the Power Cup.
26c @ 80psi with Vittoria latex.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Hexsense wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:44 pm
Aress wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:50 am
I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all

Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Straight line grip or cornering grip?
If it's cornering, that may have something to do with tread width and tire shape.
Maybe the tread doesn't touch the road as surefoot as GP5000 with the tire profile on your rim.

Cornering honestly feels great on these tires in the dry, but I am also going from 26mm WAM to 29mm WAM. My concern is with sidewall damage.

choochoo46
Posts: 180
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am

by choochoo46

I wonder if the impressively low CRR results for the Power Cup are partially skewed because of their wider widths once mounted on a rim. Maybe their 25mm tire should really be compared to results from other brands' 28mm tires.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

BRR provides you all the info for such comparison. At 80psi, the 25mm Cup tested 10.2W and 28mm GP5S tested 9.9W.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Michelin PowerCup 28c clincher (tube type).
Weight: 227.1g
Casing width 69.5mm
Tread width 25.4mm
Casing coverage ratio: 36%

On 25mm internal width rim at 60psi it measure 31.6mm

I'm interested to see if the sizing of tube type and tubeless are the same or a bit different.
Based on quote below, I think the tube-type clincher one is even larger than tubeless.
Thin casing stretch more?
allrandomletters wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:02 pm
My 28mm Power Cup TL measured 31.0mm mounted on 25mm internal hookless rims. Took them out for 70 miles yesterday, rolling hills and twisties. The tread wear looks to stay just inside the tread cap. These could take a few more degrees of lean angle. Measured them again this morning at 31.4mm after a weekend of riding.
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dmbiscuit
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:10 pm

by dmbiscuit

jcripps wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:22 pm
mathias720 wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
You almost certainly cannot run non-tubeless tyres on hookless rims, even with a tube. This goes for any tyre I believe. You can run tubeless tyres with a tube but I believe you still have to respect the 73PSI maximum pressure.

The jury is still out on hookless compatibilty, but looks unlikely as 28c has minimum pressure of 73PSI which is the absolute max for a hookless setup
Seconding this, you can't use non tubeless tires on hookless, and should also adhere to the pressure limits of the tubeless rim even if using tubes. You may be able to add a couple extra psi but I wouldn't go over by much.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

Thinking about pulling the trigger on these. How is mounting them relative to the Pro One and 5Ks? It would be my first tubeless tire so I'd like something easy to mount, preferably possible by hand.

pmprego
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

BigBoyND wrote:
Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:22 pm
Thinking about pulling the trigger on these. How is mounting them relative to the Pro One and 5Ks? It would be my first tubeless tire so I'd like something easy to mount, preferably possible by hand.
I was able to mount pirelli p zero sl (28c) by hand, no fuss at all. A set of Michelin 32c by hand it was not for me but wayyyyy easier than the "old" gp5k tl. The conti ones were really hard to explain how hard it was (especially on older gen tubeless rims)

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

25s went on Aeolus RSL 37s (with 2 layers of powder coating tape) easily without levers.

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youngs_modulus
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
Location: Portland, OR USA

by youngs_modulus

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:19 am

And no, you can’t wave your hand and say a vulcanized tire wrapped a certain way and cottonwall tire will stretch in the same manner. It’s pretty clear that they don’t.

The measured width of the tire when not mounted according to BRR only differed by 1mm.
With respect, that's not pure hand-waving; BRR's casing width measurements are not very consistent with each other. (I've dug into this more deeply than I care to admit).

I suspect this is because (a) reported values are rounded to the nearest mm and (b) bead geometry varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as well as model-to-model within a given manufacturer's range. The latter factor matters because it changes the point to which one measures.

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