Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!
Moderator: robbosmans
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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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jcripps
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:39 pm
by jcripps on Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:22 pm
mathias720 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
You almost certainly cannot run non-tubeless tyres on hookless rims, even with a tube. This goes for any tyre I believe. You can run tubeless tyres with a tube but I believe you still have to respect the 73PSI maximum pressure.
The jury is still out on hookless compatibilty, but looks unlikely as 28c has minimum pressure of 73PSI which is the absolute max for a hookless setup
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Aress
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:26 am
by Aress on Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:54 pm
C36 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:44 am
Aress wrote:I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all
Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Did you removed the thin waxy layer that is left after tire manufacturing? It is indeed slippery on the wet.
I did 200 km on them so i think the layer is gone
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pmprego
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm
by pmprego on Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:54 pm
mathias720 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
What you said is contradictory. only a tubeless tire can be (or not) hookless compatible. A "lighter non tubeless power cup version" cannot be used as tubeless, either hooked or hookless. Careful.
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Hexsense
- Posts: 3254
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
- Location: USA
by Hexsense on Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:44 pm
Aress wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:50 am
I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all
Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Straight line grip or cornering grip?
If it's cornering, that may have something to do with tread width and tire shape.
Maybe the tread doesn't touch the road as surefoot as GP5000 with the tire profile on your rim.
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wolflikeme
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:13 pm
- Location: USA
by wolflikeme on Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:59 pm
ryanw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:45 am
25mm Classic came out at 27.7mm on 21mm ID Rapdie's at 80psi.
Do you happen to know what 26c Turbo Cottons come out as on the Rapides ? Wondering if I go with 25 or 28c for the Power Cup.
Sworks Tarmac SL8 - 7.09kg
LS Ultimate (7.89kg), Tarmac SL7 (7.56kg), Aethos (7.00kg), Venge (7.59 kg), Roubaix Team (7.53 kg) - Sold
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ryanw
- in the industry
- Posts: 2284
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:52 pm
- Location: London
by ryanw on Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:45 pm
wolflikeme wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:59 pm
ryanw wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:45 am
25mm Classic came out at 27.7mm on 21mm ID Rapdie's at 80psi.
Do you happen to know what 26c Turbo Cottons come out as on the Rapides ? Wondering if I go with 25 or 28c for the Power Cup.
26c @ 80psi with Vittoria latex.
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TobinHatesYou
- Posts: 12443
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
by TobinHatesYou on Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:48 pm
Hexsense wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:44 pm
Aress wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:50 am
I'm really sad i wanted to like those tires
but they have no grip at all
Its borderline dangerous on the wet
Straight line grip or cornering grip?
If it's cornering, that may have something to do with tread width and tire shape.
Maybe the tread doesn't touch the road as surefoot as GP5000 with the tire profile on your rim.
Cornering honestly feels great on these tires in the dry, but I am also going from 26mm WAM to 29mm WAM. My concern is with sidewall damage.
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choochoo46
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:19 am
by choochoo46 on Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:17 pm
I wonder if the impressively low CRR results for the Power Cup are partially skewed because of their wider widths once mounted on a rim. Maybe their 25mm tire should really be compared to results from other brands' 28mm tires.
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Hexsense
- Posts: 3254
- Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
- Location: USA
by Hexsense on Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:11 pm
Michelin PowerCup 28c clincher (tube type).
Weight: 227.1g
Casing width 69.5mm
Tread width 25.4mm
Casing coverage ratio: 36%
On 25mm internal width rim at 60psi it measure 31.6mm
I'm interested to see if the sizing of tube type and tubeless are the same or a bit different.
Based on quote below, I think the tube-type clincher one is even larger than tubeless.
Thin casing stretch more?
allrandomletters wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:02 pm
My 28mm Power Cup TL measured 31.0mm mounted on 25mm internal hookless rims. Took them out for 70 miles yesterday, rolling hills and twisties. The tread wear looks to stay just inside the tread cap. These could take a few more degrees of lean angle. Measured them again this morning at 31.4mm after a weekend of riding.
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dmbiscuit
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:10 pm
by dmbiscuit on Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:33 am
jcripps wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:22 pm
mathias720 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:15 pm
Does anyone know if the non tubeless version is hookless compatible?
i am a wierdo and still running tubes, and sadly got a hookless whellsset. atm. running gp5k s tr but would go for the lighter non tubeless power cup version if it can be ran on hookless rims. else i will have to go for the tubeless 25mm
You almost certainly cannot run non-tubeless tyres on hookless rims, even with a tube. This goes for any tyre I believe. You can run tubeless tyres with a tube but I believe you still have to respect the 73PSI maximum pressure.
The jury is still out on hookless compatibilty, but looks unlikely as 28c has minimum pressure of 73PSI which is the absolute max for a hookless setup
Seconding this, you can't use non tubeless tires on hookless, and should also adhere to the pressure limits of the tubeless rim even if using tubes. You may be able to add a couple extra psi but I wouldn't go over by much.
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BigBoyND
- Posts: 1332
- Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
- Location: Berlin, DE
by BigBoyND on Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:22 pm
Thinking about pulling the trigger on these. How is mounting them relative to the Pro One and 5Ks? It would be my first tubeless tire so I'd like something easy to mount, preferably possible by hand.
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pmprego
- Posts: 2508
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm
by pmprego on Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:53 pm
BigBoyND wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:22 pm
Thinking about pulling the trigger on these. How is mounting them relative to the Pro One and 5Ks? It would be my first tubeless tire so I'd like something easy to mount, preferably possible by hand.
I was able to mount pirelli p zero sl (28c) by hand, no fuss at all. A set of Michelin 32c by hand it was not for me but wayyyyy easier than the "old" gp5k tl. The conti ones were really hard to explain how hard it was (especially on older gen tubeless rims)
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youngs_modulus
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:03 am
- Location: Portland, OR USA
by youngs_modulus on Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:12 am
TobinHatesYou wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:19 am
And no, you can’t wave your hand and say a vulcanized tire wrapped a certain way and cottonwall tire will stretch in the same manner. It’s pretty clear that they don’t.
The measured width of the tire when not mounted according to BRR only differed by 1mm.
With respect, that's not pure hand-waving; BRR's casing width measurements are not very consistent with each other. (I've dug into this more deeply than I care to admit).
I suspect this is because (a) reported values are rounded to the nearest mm and (b) bead geometry varies from manufacturer to manufacturer as well as model-to-model within a given manufacturer's range. The latter factor matters because it changes the point to which one measures.