new frame rumors for 2023?

[Maddie]

Size 47 has 80mm stem, previous foil had 370mm reach with 90mm stem, so exactly the same.

I wish they had fitted Foil 10 with some other wheels than those Syncros, and seems new 10 doesn't have one-piece cockpit anymore

Heard from dealer the prices are probably going to be about +1000€ compared to last year

"Exactly the same" only if you still have wiggle room for a shorter stem. Groupset reach is increasing, frame reach is increasing..

They respond to the market demand. If the market buys, the market is saying "I like this, bring me more". This simple.

Market demand doesn't change human physiology and fit ranges.

True. But the Foil is still an aero race bike and not an endurance bike. So of course it's long and low.

[cajer]

"Exactly the same" only if you still have wiggle room for a shorter stem. Groupset reach is increasing, frame reach is increasing..

They respond to the market demand. If the market buys, the market is saying "I like this, bring me more". This simple.

Market demand doesn't change human physiology and fit ranges.

True. But the Foil is still an aero race bike and not an endurance bike. So of course it's long and low.

It is just long not really low, and you could always go long with longer stems with people having done that. However no one makes anything integrated bar setups shorter than 80mm (while many manufactuers make 130-140mm stems 50mm longer than stock stems) which many people are already running on the smaller sizes. So many people are just simply not able to ride these bikes.

[pmprego]

They respond to the market demand. If the market buys, the market is saying "I like this, bring me more". This simple.

Market demand doesn't change human physiology and fit ranges.

True. But the Foil is still an aero race bike and not an endurance bike. So of course it's long and low.

It is just long not really low, and you could always go long with longer stems with people having done that. However no one makes anything integrated bar setups shorter than 80mm (while many manufactuers make 130-140mm stems 50mm longer than stock stems) which many people are already running on the smaller sizes. So many people are just simply not able to ride these bikes.

If they sell none, they will re-think their approach. If that's not the case then sales are going pretty well.

Maybe it's them saying: "I don't really want to sell those small bikes, please go look elsewhere."

[robeambro]

Market demand doesn't change human physiology and fit ranges.

True. But the Foil is still an aero race bike and not an endurance bike. So of course it's long and low.

It is just long not really low, and you could always go long with longer stems with people having done that. However no one makes anything integrated bar setups shorter than 80mm (while many manufactuers make 130-140mm stems 50mm longer than stock stems) which many people are already running on the smaller sizes. So many people are just simply not able to ride these bikes.

If they sell none, they will re-think their approach. If that's not the case then sales are going pretty well.

Maybe it's them saying: "I don't really want to sell those small bikes, please go look elsewhere."

Why on earth they would go through the R&D and production expense of having those different sizes, if they don't want to sell them?

More likely than not, the frame shapes or whatever engineering solution don't allow for sizing, and in particular frame reach, to be as scalable. Which is a shame for those who aren't as tall.

[pokemon]

In this update to the WorldTour pro bike ridden by Team DSM, Scott has worked hard to develop the Foil in both of those areas - whilst still doubling down on the aero performance. To throw out some numbers, Scott claims the new Foil is 20% faster, 10% more comfortable and 9% lighter - but there’s so much interesting tech behind these digits, so let’s jump straight into that.

The data Scott gives regarding the comparison between this iteration and the previous Scott Foil is that the new one is now 1 minute and 18 seconds faster over 40km at 40kph than before.

Another neat little point is that the bikes are being sold with 28mm tyres specced on the rear and 25mm tyres on the front.

And pigs can fly
LINK

[TobinHatesYou]

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

[robeambro]

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

Fair, but having to bodge such a disgraceful looking solution on a fully integrated aerodynamic system would be a tad disappointing. And of course, handling may be somewhat compromised.

I'm not even personally affected, but if I wasn't as tall I wouldn't like having to resort to this sort of stuff.

[Hexsense]

380mm reach for an XXS or 388 for XS doesn't make sense. Saving money on fewer molds i suppose... I see they spec'd an 80m stem / 90m stem to compensate.

Oh, almost like it made for me.
I needed -17 degree 120mm stem on Allez Sprint size 49 and Cannondale Supersix Evo size 48. Both have about 375mm reach.
Then 110mm stem on SystemSix size 51 which has 381mm reach.

On that bike size XS with 388mm reach, I'd still be able to use 100-110mm stem, I think. Then it'd look more porposional to the small bike than 120mm stem on XS frames.

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

70mm stem on my XC bike got some shade from hardcore MTB-ers for being too long.
35-55mm seems to be on trend right now.

[Maddie]

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

Fair, but having to bodge such a disgraceful looking solution on a fully integrated aerodynamic system would be a tad disappointing. And of course, handling may be somewhat compromised.

I'm not even personally affected, but if I wasn't as tall I wouldn't like having to resort to this sort of stuff.

But then it's simply not the right bike. You can't please everyone geometry-else. There are so many alternatives with less reach though

[robeambro]

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

Fair, but having to bodge such a disgraceful looking solution on a fully integrated aerodynamic system would be a tad disappointing. And of course, handling may be somewhat compromised.

I'm not even personally affected, but if I wasn't as tall I wouldn't like having to resort to this sort of stuff.

But then it's simply not the right bike. You can't please everyone geometry-else. There are so many alternatives with less reach though

If a 47cm frame has virtually the same reach of a 54cm frame, can you really say that it's not the right bike, or perhaps the real issue is that the geometry is flawed as it's not scalable?

[TobinHatesYou]

If a 47cm frame has virtually the same reach of a 54cm frame, can you really say that it's not the right bike, or perhaps the real issue is that the geometry is flawed as it's not scalable?

If you look at "short people" bikes you'll notice a few things. They have very little saddle-bar drop and they have very little saddle setback, relatively speaking. You're more likely to be Corgi proportioned when you're shorter, which ends up increasing your relative reach. Although I'm not short, my proportions are very Corgi-like, and I require a massive reach. Ideally my race bike would have 540mm stack and 400-410mm reach and also a long front-center.

The sizes shouldn't scale equally in each axis because people don't quite scale like that.

[cajer]

MTB stems exist for people at the very ends of the bell curve.

Fair, but having to bodge such a disgraceful looking solution on a fully integrated aerodynamic system would be a tad disappointing. And of course, handling may be somewhat compromised.

I'm not even personally affected, but if I wasn't as tall I wouldn't like having to resort to this sort of stuff.

But then it's simply not the right bike. You can't please everyone geometry-else. There are so many alternatives with less reach though

There really isn't any modern super bike with shorter than 365mm reach.

I'm 5'6" and need something around 360mm reach (with an 80mm stem to use with current integrated super bikes). If we people shorter need something shorter with the world height distribution, that means ~30% of people (women included) need something shorter than 360mm reach which basically isn't offered ever, which when coupled with longer reach shifters (shimano 12 speed) it makes things real bad.

The sizes shouldn't scale equally in each axis because people don't quite scale like that.

The sizes should scale linearly, as that allows you to cover the max amount of people/fitting volume with the fewest sizes. You'll still fit on the linearly spaced models it's just you might need 1 extra spacer or something vs not being able to fit at all due to frames not being small or big enough. In your instance, you are able to compensate with a 10-15mm longer stem which are provided for current super bikes.

[spdntrxi]

I ride a 47cm frame... although it built like most mfg 50-51ish. I think I fall into the short range at 5'8''

My saddle height is 70, but I'm on a 110 stem (100 is stock) and full setback on the post (which I think is 30) Saddle to bar drop is modest, but I'm old.

[TobinHatesYou]

There really isn't any modern super bike with shorter than 365mm reach.

I'm 5'6" and need something around 360mm reach (with an 80mm stem to use with current integrated super bikes). If we people shorter need something shorter with the world height distribution, that means ~30% of people (women included) need something shorter than 360mm reach which basically isn't offered ever.

Got any profile photos of your riding position? 5’6” requiring 360mm and an 80mm stem is unusually short.

[TobinHatesYou]

The sizes should scale linearly, as that allows you to cover the max amount of people/fitting volume with the fewest sizes. In your instance, you are able to compensate with a 10-15mm longer stem which are provided for current super bikes.

No bikes from major brands scale linearly. They’re not supposed to. Like I just freakin’ said, body morphology doesn’t scale equally in each axis.

And sorry, but no, I just told you what longer stems don’t do for me. They don’t give me the front-center I need for a stable / balanced riding position. I cope with it.