new frame rumors for 2023?

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CAAD8FRED
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 pm

by CAAD8FRED

jlok wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:15 am
CAAD8FRED wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:05 am
Surprised that the Madone drops tomorrow and no one has leaked anything yet. Wonder if we will have any other releases or teases at TdF
That Mad-hole has already been leaked. Nothing interesting to disclose anymore . :mrgreen:
I am more referring to a tech review that has probably been prepared in advance that has weight, stiffness claims, etc.

by Weenie


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12444
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Bikes don’t size down linearly after they become limited by 700c wheel constraints. Wheelbases stay mostly the same, STA gets steeper, HTA gets slacker within reason. In general shorter riders sit farther forward because the shorter the saddle position, the farther forward the center of mass ends up regardless of body proportions.

You can achieve the necessary front-center two ways. You can use a “standard” HTA and fork offset or you can use a slack HTA and higher offset. A lot of bikes with shorter reaches have slacker HTAs, which eventually leads to undesirable side-effects like wheel flop.

Your best option is to go custom if you need such low reach. Or 650b or something like an old Terry with 700c rear and 650c front!

Jz91
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:22 am

by Jz91

Is there any update on the giant tcr/propel?

I must say that bike got me excited. I was in the market for an Ostro but noticed some steep price increases for that and the giant bike might be its direct competitor now.

lazyriderzhao
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:48 pm

by lazyriderzhao

Jz91 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:51 am
Is there any update on the giant tcr/propel?

I must say that bike got me excited. I was in the market for an Ostro but noticed some steep price increases for that and the giant bike might be its direct competitor now.
yes, I think it should be called PCR :)
641c3416ly1h3f7780hrcj20zk0nq7av.jpg

cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:37 am
Bikes don’t size down linearly after they become limited by 700c wheel constraints. Wheelbases stay mostly the same, STA gets steeper, HTA gets slacker within reason. In general shorter riders sit farther forward because the shorter the saddle position, the farther forward the center of mass ends up regardless of body proportions.

You can achieve the necessary front-center two ways. You can use a “standard” HTA and fork offset or you can use a slack HTA and higher offset. A lot of bikes with shorter reaches have slacker HTAs, which eventually leads to undesirable side-effects like wheel flop.

Your best option is to go custom if you need such low reach. Or 650b or something like an old Terry with 700c rear and 650c front!
Some companies like cervelo do 3-4 fork offsets to fix that luckily are therefore are "able" to go to shorter reaches. Many other companies don't do that though as they are too cheap

thirdsun
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:20 pm

by thirdsun

cajer wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:36 pm
Yea, that frame is wayyy too long for me. What were they thinking 380mm in a size 47? Plus some sizes with 1/0mm reach difference between them....
Same. I know I'm rather small at 166 cm but what about women? It's not rare for them to be smaller than that. A reach of 380 mm for the smallest frame seems insane to me. However I noticed this with quite a few manufacturers lately: Their smallest sizes are way too long. Giant TCR Advanced (383 mm), Merida Reacto (384 mm), Cube Agree (378 mm). I could go on.

My primary options are basically down to Canyon and Cervelo these days. Which is fine because I (and my wallet) really like Canyon. And I've always been keen on a Cervelo - maybe some day.
  • Canyon Aeroad CF SLX 8 Di2
  • Cervelo Caledonia Rival eTap AXS
  • Vitus Venon Evo
  • Canyon Grail CF SL 8 Di2

jlok
Posts: 2395
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:37 am
Bikes don’t size down linearly after they become limited by 700c wheel constraints. Wheelbases stay mostly the same, STA gets steeper, HTA gets slacker within reason. In general shorter riders sit farther forward because the shorter the saddle position, the farther forward the center of mass ends up regardless of body proportions.

You can achieve the necessary front-center two ways. You can use a “standard” HTA and fork offset or you can use a slack HTA and higher offset. A lot of bikes with shorter reaches have slacker HTAs, which eventually leads to undesirable side-effects like wheel flop.

Your best option is to go custom if you need such low reach. Or 650b or something like an old Terry with 700c rear and 650c front!
How slack would the HTA be unacceptable with respect to wheel flop? Is there any example?
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Andrew69
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

thirdsun wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:51 am
cajer wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:36 pm
Yea, that frame is wayyy too long for me. What were they thinking 380mm in a size 47? Plus some sizes with 1/0mm reach difference between them....
Same. I know I'm rather small at 166 cm but what about women? It's not rare for them to be smaller than that. A reach of 380 mm for the smallest frame seems insane to me. However I noticed this with quite a few manufacturers lately: Their smallest sizes are way too long. Giant TCR Advanced (383 mm), Merida Reacto (384 mm), Cube Agree (378 mm). I could go on.

My primary options are basically down to Canyon and Cervelo these days. Which is fine because I (and my wallet) really like Canyon. And I've always been keen on a Cervelo - maybe some day.
Short women are even harder to fit (generally spealing) than short men as they generally have longer legs and shorter torso's
My wifes bike looks like something from the freaks thread becauase she is evn shorter than your height , but has a longer in-seam than I do (8cm shorter than myself) so her only option is extra small frame with a tower of spacers because the reach is too long on a small sized frame, but that stack is stupidly low for her on an extra small frame

Maddie
Posts: 1520
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

My girlfriend (elite level) is 165cm, rides a SL7 size 49 and a 110mm stem. Reach is 378 on that frame. No spacers apart from the mandatory ones. She has short legs though.

It's not that women can't fit modern race geometry bikes.

slashy
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:22 am

by slashy

Regarding the Scott foil and the "special" seatpost they have : did anyone read this text (comes from the bikeradar overview) :

A special silicone-based grease is applied to the tessellating seatpost sections, which is said to reduce the chances of creaking. This needs to be cleaned and refreshed every 1,000km. => WTF ?

apparently a regular non-flex seatpost can be bought aftermarket

MagicShite
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:33 pm

by MagicShite

slashy wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:51 am
*Snip*
apparently a regular non-flex seatpost can be bought aftermarket
Fair enough though, better than Canyon-lol-aeroad that you basically have zero options for.

I'd say it's far better well thought out than the new Aeroad, which also funnily scores less vertical compliance than the older aeroad.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6280
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Andrew69 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 7:07 am
thirdsun wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:51 am
cajer wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:36 pm
Yea, that frame is wayyy too long for me. What were they thinking 380mm in a size 47? Plus some sizes with 1/0mm reach difference between them....
Same. I know I'm rather small at 166 cm but what about women? It's not rare for them to be smaller than that. A reach of 380 mm for the smallest frame seems insane to me. However I noticed this with quite a few manufacturers lately: Their smallest sizes are way too long. Giant TCR Advanced (383 mm), Merida Reacto (384 mm), Cube Agree (378 mm). I could go on.

My primary options are basically down to Canyon and Cervelo these days. Which is fine because I (and my wallet) really like Canyon. And I've always been keen on a Cervelo - maybe some day.
Short women are even harder to fit (generally spealing) than short men as they generally have longer legs and shorter torso's
My wifes bike looks like something from the freaks thread becauase she is evn shorter than your height , but has a longer in-seam than I do (8cm shorter than myself) so her only option is extra small frame with a tower of spacers because the reach is too long on a small sized frame, but that stack is stupidly low for her on an extra small frame
Buy a custom made frame?
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

pmprego
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

In the case of very short people, are they willing to go 650 wheel? You can't have it both ways, eat the cake and still have it there for you.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Mega small bikes with 700c wheels looks ridiculous anyway. But I hardly ever see anyone riding 650 wheels on the road.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

by Weenie


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pmprego
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:16 pm

by pmprego

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:13 am
Mega small bikes with 700c wheels looks ridiculous anyway. But I hardly ever see anyone riding 650 wheels on the road.
Then one can't really blame it all on manufacturers, right?

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