new frame rumors for 2023?

[WorkonSunday]

My experience in the US is SRAM red has been completely zero availability since early 2020. 12spd di2 is now more available if you compromise on say cassette a little.

rival and force cassettes are completely sold out in UK at the moment. the suppliers are prioriising pre-build bikes over replacement units. only RED cassettes are slightly less lacking at the moment,

[FlatlandClimber]

Jack Bauer just changed from his new Propel to the old/current Propel during the Stage. Couldnt make out the problem with the new Propel, so it was probably just a regular mechanical issue. Quite interesting though, that they apparently dont have enough new models yet.

Probably a recall with "don't ride" notice that was issued mid-stage

[DeeDoubleYou]

Because they're still the old Model.

Just wait for the Eurobike to kick off next week. Plenty of news to come. Same goes for the Litening Air.

So you're saying the new model that we don't really know anything about yet is disc/electronic only?

[bedampft]

Because they're still the old Model.

Just wait for the Eurobike to kick off next week. Plenty of news to come. Same goes for the Litening Air.

So you're saying the new model that we don't really know anything about yet is disc/electronic only?

No. I'm not saying anything (specific), as I've been insturcted to many times over the past 1 1/2 years.

[DeeDoubleYou]

Because they're still the old Model.

Just wait for the Eurobike to kick off next week. Plenty of news to come. Same goes for the Litening Air.

So you're saying the new model that we don't really know anything about yet is disc/electronic only?

No. I'm not saying anything (specific), as I've been insturcted to many times over the past 1 1/2 years.

Ah, so you have a little insider information, gotcha!

[mrbrown4001]

Any info about possible frame releases at Eurobike? I know there have been mentions in this thread about new Bianchi frames but I haven’t heard much else. Just wanted to see if anyone knew anything. Id like to know about anything other than frames as well I just don’t know if this is the correct thread.


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[sam95]

Ive seen that Specialized is coming back at this years eurobike. Maybe they showcase some new stuff? They are building up a new innovations hub together with Denk Engineering in Germany, so eurobike would be a good event to showcase some new "Innovations" ?

[OnTheRivet]

More likely Cube couldn't secure enough Sram supply to make it worth their while.

Could be.

Sram road lead times are insane right now.

Shimano is just as much a mess. And SRAM have ramped up a lot of production.

Yeah, that seems unnecessarily aggressive.

Could make that claim for the aforementioned calls that Shimano have actually made recently. So this would (regrettably) be on brand with their current approach.

Going back 35 years in time, Shimano was really aggressive regarding patent litigation, especially against Maeda and then Mori (SunTour). They were proven wrong in most instances and Maeda was even recognised the rights over a special feature on the front derailleur cage as far as I remember. But Shimano managed to bleed out Maeda litigation costs regardless. That’s when Mori first (late 1988) then Sakae took over.

And even further back, they didn’t hesitate to breach their agreement with other Japanese bicycle component makers in the 1970s, whereby each would stick to only some (chains, hubs and so on) and the Japanese Government would support them as a group in their foreign trade. Maeda had exactly the same agreement with other group of companies and that is why the would team up with the likes of Sugino, Dia-Compe and Sansin to put their groupsets together.


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I beleive they (Shimano) were sued in the 90's for selling product (xtr components) below cost (Predatory pricing) to kill off the competition from the emerging smaller drivetrain manufacturers.

[XCProMD]

They were. And Sram sued them also for monopolistic practices that made very difficult to buy other than complete groupsets at OEM level.

Sram won and as a result 1994 was a landslide of OEM GripShift spec.


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[dmbiscuit]

US here. Both road and MTB AXS groups are in stock locally. For complete bikes, Rival is plentiful while Force and Red stock is lowish.

On the Shimano side, I've seen the same R8100/R9200 bikes in the shop and they haven't sold. 12spd groups are severely backordered.

The new Madone SLR has backorder dates of like January 30, 2023 for the frameset, further out for complete bikes.

I don't think the 2023 dates are "backorder", that is just their current estimate for when the first shipments will be available for delivery, I don't think they were ever available earlier than that. At least according to my local shop.

[bedampft]

US here. Both road and MTB AXS groups are in stock locally. For complete bikes, Rival is plentiful while Force and Red stock is lowish.

On the Shimano side, I've seen the same R8100/R9200 bikes in the shop and they haven't sold. 12spd groups are severely backordered.

The new Madone SLR has backorder dates of like January 30, 2023 for the frameset, further out for complete bikes.

I don't think the 2023 dates are "backorder", that is just their current estimate for when the first shipments will be available for delivery, I don't think they were ever available earlier than that. At least according to my local shop.

Yep. There'll still be a lot of bikes shipped with R7000 & R8000 on them in 2023. Those would have been ordered by LBS in late 2020/early 2021, or even before that. It was never planned to ship 105 Di2 in 2022, that just wasn't possible at any stage.

/That's also one reason why certain new framesets only emerged not so long ago. Or are still in the pipelines.

[dmbiscuit]

US here. Both road and MTB AXS groups are in stock locally. For complete bikes, Rival is plentiful while Force and Red stock is lowish.

On the Shimano side, I've seen the same R8100/R9200 bikes in the shop and they haven't sold. 12spd groups are severely backordered.

The new Madone SLR has backorder dates of like January 30, 2023 for the frameset, further out for complete bikes.

I don't think the 2023 dates are "backorder", that is just their current estimate for when the first shipments will be available for delivery, I don't think they were ever available earlier than that. At least according to my local shop.

Yep. There'll still be a lot of bikes shipped with R7000 & R8000 on them in 2023. Those would have been ordered by LBS in late 2020/early 2021, or even before that. It was never planned to ship 105 Di2 in 2022, that just wasn't possible at any stage.

/That's also one reason why certain new framesets only emerged not so long ago. Or are still in the pipelines.

I was specifically talking about the 2023 Madone, even the frameset only.

[cajer]

Any news on a new factor one? It's a bit long in the tooth now.

[Jz91]

US here. Both road and MTB AXS groups are in stock locally. For complete bikes, Rival is plentiful while Force and Red stock is lowish.

On the Shimano side, I've seen the same R8100/R9200 bikes in the shop and they haven't sold. 12spd groups are severely backordered.

The new Madone SLR has backorder dates of like January 30, 2023 for the frameset, further out for complete bikes.

I don't think the 2023 dates are "backorder", that is just their current estimate for when the first shipments will be available for delivery, I don't think they were ever available earlier than that. At least according to my local shop.

Yep. There'll still be a lot of bikes shipped with R7000 & R8000 on them in 2023. Those would have been ordered by LBS in late 2020/early 2021, or even before that. It was never planned to ship 105 Di2 in 2022, that just wasn't possible at any stage.

/That's also one reason why certain new framesets only emerged not so long ago. Or are still in the pipelines.

I know this is OT but just thinking how the market now works as I have friends working in small shops.
In most cases dealers had to preorder all these new bikes (say the new Madone) barely knowing any specific of the bike. Maybe they knew the retail price of the bike at the time they placed all the orders for next year.
To the point, with 105 di2 bikes now hovering >6k (Trek even 2k more), am I the only to see disaster waiting to happen for the retailers and potentially for us consumers bargains to be found? Or at least get some decent discount to bring the price at reasonable levels when buying bike in stock.
I know this might vary a lot based on location, but demand for bikes is not what is causing prices to be so high (aka I don't see lines of people waiting to splurge on bikes), rather it is a supply issue constraint as everyone knows.

[RadB]

Yes, and in supply chain this next phase of the cycle is called the bull whip effect. Somebody mentioned later this year/mid next year is expected to see the turning point.

As for propel, as above, it's under wraps/ embargo until August some time. We'll know more about what we don't know then.

Fwiw shops I was speaking with indicated the far flung dates into the future weren't intended to be specific dates, rather holding points that they (the manufacturer) expected to be able to meet by then.