I'm loosing sleep choosing a new bike

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TiBikeNut
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by TiBikeNut

Get the lightest Giant. You mentioned riding doing hills.
Always get Giant they’re a better value. Better components.

Having a power meter has been so helpful to me. Quarq one is great.

Congratulations on your recent milestones and enjoy the hunt. :)


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c60rider
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by c60rider

Rough wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:45 pm
callemacody wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:25 am
Take a look at Ribble Ultra SLR with ultegra and Zipp303s ;)
While I have no doubt that Ribble is very aero I also really don't like the looks of it and I would rather have a bike from a more established brand.
For me it's important that the bike delivers from a performance standpoint and that I find it appealing.
Ribble were established in 1897 :lol:

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peroni
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by peroni

@Rough, if you can hold 40 to 45km/h (for how long?) after only one and a half year of cycling you might have a chance of finding a team that will gladly pay for a bike.

Did you consider the Cube Agree? https://www.cube.eu/en/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree
Bianchi Oltre XR2 2014 Campagnolo SR

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wheelsONfire
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by wheelsONfire

Rough wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:36 am
So I finished my studies and got a job and I am finally in position to afford a proper superbike (for me at least).

I'm already past the fact that I don't really need a new bike as my old one is good enough for the training and riding I do.
I feel that I am at the point in life when buying an expensive/luxury item such as a superbike is appropriate as I don't have a family/loans/mortgage. I've been cycling for a year and a half and since then cycling has become basically my main hobby/activity and I'm really passionate about it.

I also know that the timing isn't that great with supply issues and high prices but I'd rather have the bike now and ride it opposed to waiting for it 2-3 years (and I have a feeling that prices won't really go down, probably the opposite).

I'm a larger guy, 189cm and 76kg and I tend to be better on flats than on the hills. I do ride a lot of steep and long climbs but I also love ripping it on flats. I am powerfull and aero enough that holding 40-45km/h is realistic so aero performance of a frame/bike is somewhat important (I know most aero tests are done at that speed).

Basically I'm torn between (in no particular order):

1. Giant TCR SL Disc 1 2021 (SL ISP frameset with Force groupset, Quark PM, SLR wheelset)
https://images.giant-bicycles.com/b_whi ... osNavy.jpg
what I like:
- I think paintjob is absolutely amazing (I've seen this bike in person at my local Giant dealer and it is stunning)
- I like the visual apperance of the bike, classic shape
- Easy to change cockpit (I ride 38cm bars and would like to try 36cm)
- I have heard amazing things about Giant TCR 2021 ride quality
- It's light and stiff, would be great climbing and descending machine
- Quark power meter
- Wouldn't have to wait for the bike, available right now
what I dislike:
- Price is around 5900€ and is absolute limit of what I'm willing to spend
- While I appreciate the simplicity of non-integrated cockpit I thing hidden cables look great
- Aero performance: TCR 2021 was tested by at 227 watts with SLR wheelset or 223 watts with zip404 and round handlebars.
- While ISP looks nice it can probably be a pain in the ass (difficult adjustments, difficult to travel)
- I don't hate the Force groupset but for that money I'd like to have new 12-speed ultegra Di2
- SLR wheelset is light but it's also hookless, narrow and not really aero. I've heard hubs are good though (could probably sell this and buy something deeper, wider and more aero)
- If they introduce hidden cables/fully integrated TCR version next year I'll feel stupid for not waiting out for that

2. Merida Reacto 8000 (12 speed Ultegra Di2, Reynolds ar58 wheelset)
https://d2lljesbicak00.cloudfront.net/m ... 022.tif?p3
what I like:
- Objectively a faster bike. It's heavier but definitely more aero (Tour tested at 209 watts I think?)
- The bike just looks fast
- I like how it looks with hidden cables/full integration
- Sensible integration, could change handlebars easily
- Ultegra Di2 12 speed
- Could get it at around 5600€ so while very expensive still cheaper than Giant TCR SL
- Deep wheelset which is not hookless
what I dislike:
- It's probably quite a bit heavier than Giant (while weight is not so important to me it's nice to have a light bike if possible)
- Could get a matt black paintjob version quite soon but I would very much prefer the dark red version (I would really like to avoid having a black bike)
- Don't know the delivery date of Dark red paintjob version
- Front end stiffness and ride quality are probably worse than Giant TCR

2. Cube Litening c68x (would prefer Ultegra Di2 12 speed but SRAM Force would work too if available)
what I like:
- A fast bike (probably very similar to Merida in this regard)
- Good value at 4800€ for Ultegra di2 build
- Hidden cables
what I dislike:
- Bike looks "okay" but paintjobs are quite underwhelming in my opinion
- Cockpit only comes in 400cm or wider and is expensive and pain in the ass to replace
- While the bike seems like a good/fast option I don't really "feel" it.

3. Giant TCR Advanced pro 0 2022 (Ultegra Di2)
https://images.giant-bicycles.com/b_whi ... erGlow.jpg
what I like:
- 5000€: Sensible price for new 12 speed ultegra Di2 build
- I kinda like the paintjob (but I still think Advanced SL 2021 version looks much better)
- Non ISP seatpost would be easy to live with
- Probably similar weight to SL version due to Ultegra being lighter than Force
what I dislike:
- Paintjob could be nicer
- Not fully integrated (easier to work on but doesn't look as nice...)
- SLR wheelset (same cons as SL version)

These were the options I'm loosing sleep about. I would really appreciate commenst from people owning the bikes and some general advice/guidance. I feel like full on aero bike would suit a rider like me more but at the same time I can really appreciate the simplicity of the TCR.

I would also like some advice regarding the ISP. How much adjustment do I have if I change my cleat position or switch to shorter cranks? Is it really such a pain in the ass? Do benefits outweight the negatives?

I know some find aero testing results pointless but I think (while testing is flawed) it does matter. How much of a disadvantage would TCR with aero handlebars and deeper wheelset be compared to Reacto? Would it be closer to 5-8 watts difference at 45 km/h? Is the difference even smaller in real world with water bottles and such?

I know this is a long post (hopefully it sparks some debate) but any help is welcome! Thanks!
I would personally go for fit first.
If that is of no issue, then go for the bike with least things on your "hick-up list".
The things you dislike are those that would bug you later on.
Finally, i have frames with ISP and yes, i wouldn't buy that again!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

-
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

Rough
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:21 am

by Rough

Wow I am overwhelemed by the replies and advice I got. I would like to thank everyone for chiming in.
wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:52 pm
I would personally go for fit first.
If that is of no issue, then go for the bike with least things on your "hick-up list".
The things you dislike are those that would bug you later on.
Finally, i have frames with ISP and yes, i wouldn't buy that again!
AJS914 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:36 pm
How confident are you of your current size? I'm 183cm and would ride that size. On some bike branks I can even size up to a 58cm.
dcj10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:23 pm
IMO some great posts coming to your assistance. Buy whatever makes you happy, and also: so long as you get proper bike fit advice first. These things seem to be a repeating takeout from this thread.
https://imgur.com/a/tZYtRa3

I asked my girlfriend to take a few snapshots of me on a trainer in some different positions on a bike. From most upright to the most aero. I feel comfortable in each position I actively try to hold aero position on most of my rides. At first my arms were hurting after 20 minutes (probably because I have a heavy upper body for a cyclist) but now I can hold position with forearms parallel to the ground much longer. In the most/aero agressive position my balls will start to hurt after a while but that's because I'm so far forward on the seat and the seat is not the right shape for that.

The main problem with good aero position for me is vision and reaction time on the road. If the road is safe, straight and open it's reasonably safe but your vision and reaction time is still impaired.

I ride 38cm bars which took some getting used to but now they feel great. Would like to try 36cm.
I am confident in my fit. I still play around with my cleat position and saddle fore aft but the changes are very minor/just experiments out of curiosity.
wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:52 pm
Finally, i have frames with ISP and yes, i wouldn't buy that again!
Can you elaborate? Is it so difficult to live with?
peroni wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:59 pm
@Rough, if you can hold 40 to 45km/h (for how long?) after only one and a half year of cycling you might have a chance of finding a team that will gladly pay for a bike.

Did you consider the Cube Agree? https://www.cube.eu/en/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree
Difficult to say but 40km/h is probably around 280-320 watts depending on the road surface and other variabiles. 45 km/h is quite a bit more, maybe 360-400 watts? I'm only training with power since last october so I don't have a good refernce (99% of my riding has been inside because of the weather). I have made some very nice gains though and my ftp is currently around 345watts according to intervals.icu estimate. So according to the data I could probably hold 40km/h for quite a while and 45 km/h for 15-20 minutes?

Cube Agree is too upright for me. Looking for a bike with lower stack.
robeambro wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:27 pm
For me the wake-up call was to see very fit people on their 10kg alloy winter bikes smoking me on some spicy group rides, me with my sub-7kg semi-aero rig. Being on a fully optimised setup that screamed "I've just come back from a Tour de France stage" made it almost stressful when others assumed I was a super strong rider, or when they overtook me with their basic setups. If anything getting a "slower" bike then allowed my mind to be at ease, as I didn't "have to" be the fastest person on every ride anymore. And I still get to play with other far less visible tricks (such as narrow bars, tyres, etc).
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:46 pm
I really don't see the argument for being embarassed of not being the fastest guy in the group just because you're trying to optimise your setup. I mean, the sport of cycling is about going fast, and I don't see why you wouldn't do all you can to go faster. Even more, why would you care about random people on the road passing you? This is a common cyclist ego driven mistake. This is not directed at you personally, just in general. People do this.
I don't really care what other people think about my setup or my bike as long as I like it. I'm more afraid that I'm gonna change my mind and want a different bike because I can be like that - impatient and irrational. That my also be because I didn't get that bike that I really wanted before but one that was financially viable at the time.

I was dropped many times and I'll get dropped many times in the future regardless of what bike I ride and what bikes other people like. Getting dropped motivates me to get better and train more.
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Are you fully set on these few bikes, or are you open to suggestions?

One thing I missed. Regarding the internal cables. Yes it's a PITA if you don't already know exactly your reach and stack, and want to experiment a bit.
I'm am open to suggestions of course, however the availability is a problem where I live.

I just got notified that Merida Reacto in Dark strawberry red is not availabe and it won't be. I can only get it in black and I really don't wan't a black bike. Cube litening is also not available.
Maddie wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:13 pm
From what I've read, steel is not the direction the OP would like to take.
I'd recommend the Giant since it is the one you're drawn to. You may think that the Merida is somehow faster but it won't make a difference out there. But a bike that makes you happy by simply looking at it will!
I think I may agree. I'm looking at this stupid charts with aero savings and stiffness and such. But in the end if I'm gonna really like how the bike looks and feels like it's gonna make me ride more...

https://ibb.co/4RJYxPg
Talking about charts hahaha

Would I be right to interpret this chart as actually good result for Giant? 223 watts with control wheelset and a round bar? Is it right to assume that with aero bar it could score around 218 watts? I've also heard that Sram AXS is less aero because of lever shapes and fat derailleur (Giant was tested with Sram Red AXS I think?).

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Matt28NJ
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:16 am

by Matt28NJ

All the bikes listed are great.

I'd buy the one that when you look at it... it makes you say *damn*! I wanna go ride.

And get fitted to whatever you choose, since you're newish at the sport. With experience, you'll be able to do it yourself. And strap on a number and go racing to test yourself.

robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Rough wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:34 pm
Wow I am overwhelemed by the replies and advice I got. I would like to thank everyone for chiming in.
wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:52 pm
I would personally go for fit first.
If that is of no issue, then go for the bike with least things on your "hick-up list".
The things you dislike are those that would bug you later on.
Finally, i have frames with ISP and yes, i wouldn't buy that again!
AJS914 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:36 pm
How confident are you of your current size? I'm 183cm and would ride that size. On some bike branks I can even size up to a 58cm.
dcj10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:23 pm
IMO some great posts coming to your assistance. Buy whatever makes you happy, and also: so long as you get proper bike fit advice first. These things seem to be a repeating takeout from this thread.
https://imgur.com/a/tZYtRa3

I asked my girlfriend to take a few snapshots of me on a trainer in some different positions on a bike. From most upright to the most aero. I feel comfortable in each position I actively try to hold aero position on most of my rides. At first my arms were hurting after 20 minutes (probably because I have a heavy upper body for a cyclist) but now I can hold position with forearms parallel to the ground much longer. In the most/aero agressive position my balls will start to hurt after a while but that's because I'm so far forward on the seat and the seat is not the right shape for that.

The main problem with good aero position for me is vision and reaction time on the road. If the road is safe, straight and open it's reasonably safe but your vision and reaction time is still impaired.

I ride 38cm bars which took some getting used to but now they feel great. Would like to try 36cm.
I am confident in my fit. I still play around with my cleat position and saddle fore aft but the changes are very minor/just experiments out of curiosity.
wheelsONfire wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:52 pm
Finally, i have frames with ISP and yes, i wouldn't buy that again!
Can you elaborate? Is it so difficult to live with?
peroni wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:59 pm
@Rough, if you can hold 40 to 45km/h (for how long?) after only one and a half year of cycling you might have a chance of finding a team that will gladly pay for a bike.

Did you consider the Cube Agree? https://www.cube.eu/en/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree
Difficult to say but 40km/h is probably around 280-320 watts depending on the road surface and other variabiles. 45 km/h is quite a bit more, maybe 360-400 watts? I'm only training with power since last october so I don't have a good refernce (99% of my riding has been inside because of the weather). I have made some very nice gains though and my ftp is currently around 345watts according to intervals.icu estimate. So according to the data I could probably hold 40km/h for quite a while and 45 km/h for 15-20 minutes?

Cube Agree is too upright for me. Looking for a bike with lower stack.
robeambro wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:27 pm
For me the wake-up call was to see very fit people on their 10kg alloy winter bikes smoking me on some spicy group rides, me with my sub-7kg semi-aero rig. Being on a fully optimised setup that screamed "I've just come back from a Tour de France stage" made it almost stressful when others assumed I was a super strong rider, or when they overtook me with their basic setups. If anything getting a "slower" bike then allowed my mind to be at ease, as I didn't "have to" be the fastest person on every ride anymore. And I still get to play with other far less visible tricks (such as narrow bars, tyres, etc).
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:46 pm
I really don't see the argument for being embarassed of not being the fastest guy in the group just because you're trying to optimise your setup. I mean, the sport of cycling is about going fast, and I don't see why you wouldn't do all you can to go faster. Even more, why would you care about random people on the road passing you? This is a common cyclist ego driven mistake. This is not directed at you personally, just in general. People do this.
I don't really care what other people think about my setup or my bike as long as I like it. I'm more afraid that I'm gonna change my mind and want a different bike because I can be like that - impatient and irrational. That my also be because I didn't get that bike that I really wanted before but one that was financially viable at the time.

I was dropped many times and I'll get dropped many times in the future regardless of what bike I ride and what bikes other people like. Getting dropped motivates me to get better and train more.
Roadbiker10 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:52 pm
Are you fully set on these few bikes, or are you open to suggestions?

One thing I missed. Regarding the internal cables. Yes it's a PITA if you don't already know exactly your reach and stack, and want to experiment a bit.
I'm am open to suggestions of course, however the availability is a problem where I live.

I just got notified that Merida Reacto in Dark strawberry red is not availabe and it won't be. I can only get it in black and I really don't wan't a black bike. Cube litening is also not available.
Maddie wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:13 pm
From what I've read, steel is not the direction the OP would like to take.
I'd recommend the Giant since it is the one you're drawn to. You may think that the Merida is somehow faster but it won't make a difference out there. But a bike that makes you happy by simply looking at it will!
I think I may agree. I'm looking at this stupid charts with aero savings and stiffness and such. But in the end if I'm gonna really like how the bike looks and feels like it's gonna make me ride more...

https://ibb.co/4RJYxPg
Talking about charts hahaha

Would I be right to interpret this chart as actually good result for Giant? 223 watts with control wheelset and a round bar? Is it right to assume that with aero bar it could score around 218 watts? I've also heard that Sram AXS is less aero because of lever shapes and fat derailleur (Giant was tested with Sram Red AXS I think?).
I would direct you to a post I've written a few hours ago in the Tour test thread : viewtopic.php?p=1728883#p1728883

I'm not saying it's exact science, it's more of a rambling.

CustomMetal
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by CustomMetal

gorkypl wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:59 pm
treyxt wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:19 pm
you're 189cm on a 56 frame? Interesting.. Short legs or something?
That is a valid point. It seems very strange, thus even more suggesting a proper bike fit.
Are you suggesting he is too tall for a 56?.. I'm 190.5cm and would ride a 56 with a slammed 130cm stem if all my bikes weren't custom... it is also to do with flexibility and core strength
Allegra- Steel Lugs TBC
Aurelia- Stainless All Road 8.5kg
Bertha- TT 9.8kg
Perdita- Ti Turbo bike 8kg
Serenity- Ti Gravel 9.5kg/8.9kg
Verity- Ti Aero 8.2kg
Alya- Ti Climbing TBC

All weights with pedals,cages & garmin mount

rudye9mr
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

Also consider allowable tyre size (max width) and most likely wheelset as it can help dial in comfort

Buy one that makes you want to ride everyday (proper fit etc as well)

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I had a Time RXRS and it had the ISM which wasnt too bad as it was adjustable within a couple cm but it would not pack in my bike case which was irritating. The frame was 56 (Med) and that means it would require a specific bike case made for ISM. I am 183cm so I didnt have to cut much off the post and I was able to sell it no problem as the buyer was shorter leg length than myself. The other issue it presented was having no option for seat setback as it was at 20mm I think. It was a great bike and fit me well but I couldnt travel with it.
That being said purchase the bike that makes you want to ride it everytime you look at it but also keep fit in mind.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
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velov
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:09 am

by velov

Matt28NJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:13 pm

I'd buy the one that when you look at it... it makes you say *damn*! I wanna go ride.
The only right answer imo

IanisCercariolo
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:58 am
Location: Vaud, Switzerland

by IanisCercariolo

Rough wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:34 pm
Would I be right to interpret this chart as actually good result for Giant? 223 watts with control wheelset and a round bar? Is it right to assume that with aero bar it could score around 218 watts? I've also heard that Sram AXS is less aero because of lever shapes and fat derailleur (Giant was tested with Sram Red AXS I think?).
Here is a piece of data from Specialized if it may help :
Image

If you put the .003 difference of Cda between SL6 with round bars and SL6 with aero bar, in a calculator at 45 kph, it gives a 4w advantage

peroni
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:31 am
Location: Italy

by peroni

Rough wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:34 pm

Difficult to say but 40km/h is probably around 280-320 watts depending on the road surface and other variabiles. 45 km/h is quite a bit more, maybe 360-400 watts? I'm only training with power since last october so I don't have a good refernce (99% of my riding has been inside because of the weather). I have made some very nice gains though and my ftp is currently around 345watts according to intervals.icu estimate. So according to the data I could probably hold 40km/h for quite a while and 45 km/h for 15-20 minutes?
Assuming a flat road and no wind at 40kmh you need around 366w, taken from here https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/cycling-power.php

In any case congrats! These are nice numbers.
Bianchi Oltre XR2 2014 Campagnolo SR

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
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Aesch
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

velov wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:26 am
Matt28NJ wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:13 pm

I'd buy the one that when you look at it... it makes you say *damn*! I wanna go ride.
The only right answer imo
One of the most important at least!

Choose the one which makes you think "yeah that's mine!"

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