What do you want to see from Campagnolo 2022-2023?

[usr]

They need to move to a shadow-esque design. Slimmer profile and lighter.

True: even if it wasn't any lighter, that fat, wide cylinder for the spring wrapped around the main bolt just looks wrong on a direct mount or the built-in adapter. I think I get their motivation (if there was any deliberation involved and not just continuity, as in "nobody gave me an order to change it so I did not"), similarity to the iconic derailleurs of old, but those were much smaller it just does not work well with the modern dimensions. People who done recognize the brand assume that it's some random cheapo from aliexpress.

[bobrayner]

Not everyone is an Ekar fan, but I think it's important to recognise the big step that Campagnolo took with Ekar. Despite previous failures in MTB & CX, Campag actually saw a rapidly growing new segment and built a good product for that segment. Even better, a lot of that investment can be reused in other groupsets; there are already N3W hubs and 13-speed chains and so on, so it shouldn't cost much more to offer a 13-speed road groupset. That would be actual innovation (Remaking magura brakes a few years after everybody else offered disc brakes isn't very innovative) and it would increase sales and it's doable.

Campagnolo needs to re-establish themselves as an OEM supplier. The idea of boutique and catering to a small market is going to kill them off. They need revenue and profits from Chorus and lower lines to prop up R&D and spur innovation.

Right now to me they look like they are bleeding a slow death.

Cheers! is wise.

Abandon all the bottom groupset options and the cheaper wheels. Really stretch up. Some sort of super Super Record tier.

Campagnolo already shunned lower groupset options. That's why they have such tiny market share; cheaper bikes don't have campagnolo groupsets. Ditto for other popular segments like MTB. Narrowing that down even further is unlikely to solve Campagnolo's problem of shrinking market share.

Perhaps you feel that OEMs will return to the fold, if Campagnolo write to them and say "We've listened to your concerns and now we're going to support even less of your segment".

[Dov]

Abandon all the bottom groupset options and the cheaper wheels. Really stretch up. Some sort of super Super Record tier.

Campagnolo already shunned lower groupset options. That's why they have such tiny market share; cheaper bikes don't have campagnolo groupsets. Ditto for other popular segments like MTB. Narrowing that down even further is unlikely to solve Campagnolo's problem of shrinking market share.

Perhaps you feel that OEMs will return to the fold, if Campagnolo write to them and say "We've listened to your concerns and now we're going to support even less of your segment".

This is predicated on the belief that the only way to be a functioning business in cycling is to tap into the OEM market and sell a lot of your products to 'big bike' at a low margin. You are wrong and having a dominant market position does not look like Campagnolo's startegy. Would you say this same thing about Ferrari?

[usr]

But the Ferrari model won't work. People driving a Renault are far more likely to lust for a Ferrari while doing it than people riding Ultegra lusting for Superrecord. The latter is extremely rare. The cycling groupset market has much stronger vertical brand loyalty than the car market.

I believe that Campagnolo is in a position so weak wrt OEM these days that they might actually get by with starting their own line of direct-to-customer bikes (ideally partnering with someone who knows that field, like they did with Magura which I sincerely hope ended parting as friends and not invoking some contract loophole after completion of the knowledge transfer). Not under the Campagnolo brand, more like pulling another Fulcrum or maybe even using that name (personally I'd rather go with something "more Italian").

Perhaps, to lessen the blow to remaining OEM, deliberately limited to downmarket groups (e.g. Chorus and whatever they have below Chorus at the rooms) and being *very* open about that, perhaps even offering those OEM customers to sell through that same channel if they don't mind (don't mind stepping on the toes of their brick and mortar distribution if they have that). If it was my company, I'd even look into offering those bikes with Shimano and SRAM as well, just priced relative to each other the way I'd want to see them arranged (e.g. as if OEM discounts didn't exist), I think that this could give that bike vendor a lot of credibility. "It's like any other direct bike brand, just with the promise that every model is also available with a Campagnolo group"

[WorkonSunday]

in my circle, i have seen alot of people went the SRAM rival AXS route since it was launched and marketed as "105" level electronic groupset. in reality, rival AXS was priced closer to ultegra, but the marketing works like a charm. i think Campy can really do with a lower tier EPS. at the moment, they are not even on the radar for newcomers. as sad as it sounds, only very few people knows and appreciates a good mechanical groupset and the average age of this group of people are not getting younger.

[usr]

i think Campy can really do with a lower tier EPS.

I'm quite optimistic (for Campagnolo) and pessimistic (for the state of quality mechanic) that the next generation will be exactly that: electronic as default, dropping the EPS name and hopefully full wireless, somehow dealing with that SRAM patent for using a detachable battery on an electric actor device.

at the moment, they are not even on the radar for newcomers. as sad as it sounds, only very few people knows and appreciates a good mechanical groupset and the average age of this group of people are not getting younger.

Looking at how fast more and more people are deserting from the bowden banner, that average age seems to go up at least two years per twelve months these days...

[rudye9mr]

Any difference in magura vs campagnolo made disc calipers other than asthetics?

[Singular]

Any difference in magura vs campagnolo made disc calipers other than asthetics?

The fluid...?

[Dov]

But the Ferrari model won't work. People driving a Renault are far more likely to lust for a Ferrari while doing it than people riding Ultegra lusting for Superrecord. The latter is extremely rare. The cycling groupset market has much stronger vertical brand loyalty than the car market.

The Ferrari model doesn't work becasue Renault drivers are saving up their pennies for the day they can upgrade to a Ferrari. It is a market leading product, manaufactured in small numbers and sold to those that can afford it. Campagnolo is the same. They make x bike parts and sell the lot of them. They are profitable and are growing.

https://www.bike-eu.com/market/nieuws/2 ... y-10142058

Is it really jsut a case of go big, or go home?

Campagnolo is very similar to a business like Chris King that is perceived to be in a constant battle for their survival based on the fact everything they make is behind the market curve, yet here they are; still in business, still growing and still profitable.

[usr]

You can't compare Chris King to a groupset manufacturer though. Shimano and SRAM buyers would maybe be willing to substitute any number of parts with a boutique replacement to show off (think Ingrid), but an incompatibility commitment from lever UI all the way to freehub body is an entirely different thing. Nobody considers Superrecord as a natural upgrade from Ultegra, who would not prefer Campag over Shimano on any price level. The "Chris King" way would effectively mean giving up on groupsets and becoming a wheel manufacturer.

[Lina]

I'd wager about the same amount of nobodies consider Chris King and Campagnolo products as an upgrade to their bikes. Practically no one is going to upgrade their headset, BB, wheelset just to get Chris King. It's the people that build their bikes from a frame and hand pick all the components that is their target demographic. Much like with Campagnolo. Obviously both brands do have some brands they have OEM contracts with but neither is even trying to be everywhere.

And just because you don't compete on a heavily contested markets of low profit products doesn't mean that the business is about to fall over. If we look at Ferrari again, they are one of the most profitable car companies around and they don't even try to compete with Renault.

[usr]

I'd wager about the same amount of nobodies consider Chris King and Campagnolo products as an upgrade to their bikes. Practically no one is going to upgrade their headset, BB, wheelset just to get Chris King. It's the people that build their bikes from a frame and hand pick all the components that is their target demographic. Much like with Campagnolo.

But very much unlike Campagnolo, people who opt for a Chris King headset don't come from some other headset brand they are already heavily invested in, emotionally, motorincally and in terms of parts interchangability. And if the Chris King headset may perhaps not perform noticeably better than any cheap other headset, it will definitely not perform differently. Going Superrecord from Ultegra is quite the opposite: the shifting is very different, and sure, if you happen to like that difference it will be "better" and perhaps worth it, but if you don't like the Campagnolo way it will be a change for the worse. This simply does not happen with something as imperceptible as a headset which you only ever notice when it's broken.

[Lina]

I'd wager about the same amount of nobodies consider Chris King and Campagnolo products as an upgrade to their bikes. Practically no one is going to upgrade their headset, BB, wheelset just to get Chris King. It's the people that build their bikes from a frame and hand pick all the components that is their target demographic. Much like with Campagnolo.

But very much unlike Campagnolo, people who opt for a Chris King headset don't come from some other headset brand they are already heavily invested in, emotionally, motorincally and in terms of parts interchangability. And if the Chris King headset may perhaps not perform noticeably better than any cheap other headset, it will definitely not perform differently. Going Superrecord from Ultegra is quite the opposite: the shifting is very different, and sure, if you happen to like that difference it will be "better" and perhaps worth it, but if you don't like the Campagnolo way it will be a change for the worse. This simply does not happen with something as imperceptible as a headset which you only ever notice when it's broken.

We're talking about OEM and average cyclists here. For these people if they have a headset in their bike they are heavily invested in their headset. If it breaks and needs a replacement they'll go the their LBS and get a replacement headset that's the same as the OEM. And with modern integrated front ends there is compatibility to account for. An average cyclist is probably just as likely to change their headset to Chris King as they're changing their groupset to Campagnolo. Both of them are after the enthusiast crowd who build their bikes from framesets and know what parts they want. Yes headsets are much easier to change than a full groupset. But that still doesn't mean people will actually do it.

[DrSmile]

I'm the only one that wants cassettes that start with a 12 or even better 13 cog?

[Dov]

A 12sp in 12-27 would be pretty banging.