Shimano 12s Chain with SRAM AXS Cassette

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da123
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

Hi. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere (I looked but couldn't find it), but I wondered if there was a problem using an XTR CN-9100 chain (12s) with a 12s AXS SRAM cassette. The mechs are Shimano 9200 and the chainrings Carbon-Ti (the new 12s Evo version, so compatible with the chain).

I've seen this set up with a flattop chain (the fairwheel bikes set up), but not with a Shimano chain and wondered if that was because it wouldn't play nicely with the SRAM cassette for some reason?

Any thoughts welcome!

Cheers,
Dave

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

The Shimano 12s chain has a different plate profile for improved shifting with their new-ish Hyperglyde+ cassettes and rings (same for MTB and the new Road groups). The chain is not compatible with older 11s or other 12s systems. You can use other 12s chains (IE: SRAM Eagle) with the Shimano cassettes, but you will lose the benefit of the new shifting technology.

Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road. You cannot use SRAM Eagle (MTB) or any other 12s components.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

samarskyrider
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by samarskyrider

Is it possible to run Shimano 12spd road cassette with AXS road derailleur? If so, which chain will work best


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da123
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:42 am

by da123

IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm
The Shimano 12s chain has a different plate profile for improved shifting with their new-ish Hyperglyde+ cassettes and rings (same for MTB and the new Road groups). The chain is not compatible with older 11s or other 12s systems. You can use other 12s chains (IE: SRAM Eagle) with the Shimano cassettes, but you will lose the benefit of the new shifting technology.

Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road. You cannot use SRAM Eagle (MTB) or any other 12s components.
Thanks for this. However I have a SRAM XG1290 cassette, so is there an issue (by 'issue', I mean actual problem rather than 'doesn't shift quite as smoothly as hyperglide') with using the Shimano 12s chain with that? Or should I stick to using the KMC X12 chain, which I know is compatible with SRAM AXS cassettes as KMC have confirmed this?

Cheers, Dave

DaveS
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by DaveS

I tried a shimano xt 12 speed chain with my sram axs 10-33 cassette. It had shifting problems between 13-14-15. I took it off after 100 miles. You can't do better than an axs chain.

The opposite will probably work fine. I had no problems with an axs chain and Campy 12 cassette.

markyboy
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Location: Bristol uk

by markyboy

DaveS wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:31 am
I tried a shimano xt 12 speed chain with my sram axs 10-33 cassette. It had shifting problems between 13-14-15. I took it off after 100 miles. You can't do better than an axs chain.

The opposite will probably work fine. I had no problems with an axs chain and Campy 12 cassette.
I had same problem,i then put on the sram flat top and its perfect.I also run it on my campag super record and its runs better than the campag one.
Colnago arabesque campagnolo super record 12
Colnago c64
Cinelli zydeco grx di2

da123
Posts: 454
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by da123

So in summary then, it looks like:

SRAM AXS cassette + Shimano CN9100 XTR chain = No

SRAM AXS cassette + flattop = Yes (obvs...)

SRAM AXS cassette + KMC X12 (new version) = Yes

WorkonSunday
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by WorkonSunday

samarskyrider wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:55 pm
Is it possible to run Shimano 12spd road cassette with AXS road derailleur? If so, which chain will work best


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my friend works in a workshop and said it does work with acceptable performance. :beerchug:

edit: PS: abit more details. full red axs system (chain, rd, front mech, chainset), just shimano 12s speed ultegra cassette.
IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm
Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road.
this is true for chain ring, but cassette gaps often manufactured with ever-so-slightly larger U shape to aid chain shifting up and down. i have bikes running AXS system with campy 12s cassette because i cannot source XDR freehub for my existing wheels.
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. :thumbup:
n+1...14 last time i checked, but i lost count :mrgreen:

samarskyrider
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by samarskyrider

WorkonSunday wrote:
samarskyrider wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:55 pm
Is it possible to run Shimano 12spd road cassette with AXS road derailleur? If so, which chain will work best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
my friend works in a workshop and said it does work with acceptable performance. :beerchug:

edit: PS: abit more details. full red axs system (chain, rd, front mech, chainset), just shimano 12s speed ultegra cassette.
IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm
Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road.
this is true for chain ring, but cassette gaps often manufactured with ever-so-slightly larger U shape to aid chain shifting up and down. i have bikes running AXS system with campy 12s cassette because i cannot source XDR freehub for my existing wheels.
My setup will look as following:

RD Force AXS
FD Force AXS
ULTEGRA 12Spd cassette
Sram 11spd 52-36 chainrings

What chain would work best for this mix?

I'm unable to source xd freehub and that's why plan to use 12spd ultegra cassette


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WorkonSunday
Posts: 540
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by WorkonSunday

samarskyrider wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:00 am
WorkonSunday wrote:
samarskyrider wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:55 pm
Is it possible to run Shimano 12spd road cassette with AXS road derailleur? If so, which chain will work best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
my friend works in a workshop and said it does work with acceptable performance. :beerchug:

edit: PS: abit more details. full red axs system (chain, rd, front mech, chainset), just shimano 12s speed ultegra cassette.
IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm
Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road.
this is true for chain ring, but cassette gaps often manufactured with ever-so-slightly larger U shape to aid chain shifting up and down. i have bikes running AXS system with campy 12s cassette because i cannot source XDR freehub for my existing wheels.
My setup will look as following:

RD Force AXS
FD Force AXS
ULTEGRA 12Spd cassette
Sram 11spd 52-36 chainrings

What chain would work best for this mix?

I'm unable to source xd freehub and that's why plan to use 12spd ultegra cassette


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
due to the 11speed chainring, i would look into shimano 12s chain. however the AXS rear mech upper jockey wheel may need swapping out as it is designed for their AXS flat top chain. i have yet to try using a non flat top chain with AXS jockey wheels. judging from experience, i think that will need swapping out.

(I have bikes that uses 11speed chainrings with flat top chain, but even on the workstand you can tell the chain isnt fully engaged with the chainring. the rollers are just that slightly bigger. i still ride those bikes without too much issues tho, but probably because im not much of a perfectionist and i set my bar quite low, lol)
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. :thumbup:
n+1...14 last time i checked, but i lost count :mrgreen:

samarskyrider
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by samarskyrider

If upper jockey needs replacement, then what wheel is needed?


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DaveS
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

There's no need to change the upper pulley to use a standard #41 chain. I didn't notice any problem at the RD with a shimano 12 chain. The pulley being made for a tiny bit larger roller doesn't make a bit of difference. The axs pulley might be a bit narrower, but I have no other pulley to make a comparative measure.

I've also seen no problem with using 11 speed grx cranks or Campy 12 cranks.

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IrrelevantD
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by IrrelevantD

da123 wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:01 pm
IrrelevantD wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:43 pm
The Shimano 12s chain has a different plate profile for improved shifting with their new-ish Hyperglyde+ cassettes and rings (same for MTB and the new Road groups). The chain is not compatible with older 11s or other 12s systems. You can use other 12s chains (IE: SRAM Eagle) with the Shimano cassettes, but you will lose the benefit of the new shifting technology.

Additionally, the SRAM 12s Road chains (flat top) have larger rollers, requiring cassettes and rings specifically designed to work with SRAM 12s Road. You cannot use SRAM Eagle (MTB) or any other 12s components.
Thanks for this. However I have a SRAM XG1290 cassette, so is there an issue (by 'issue', I mean actual problem rather than 'doesn't shift quite as smoothly as hyperglide') with using the Shimano 12s chain with that? Or should I stick to using the KMC X12 chain, which I know is compatible with SRAM AXS cassettes as KMC have confirmed this?

Cheers, Dave
If you're using a 12s Red cassette, you need to be using a SRAM chain. The cassette is designed to use a chain with larger rollers, by using a *normal* chain, you're basically doing the same thing as you would with running a new chain on a worn cassette. May be performance issues as well as may cause premature wear. Regarding the Shimano 12s chain, it has a different inner plate for Hyperglide+. This needs a specific tooth profile to work properly. Having run a HG+ chain on normal chainring, it can be noisy, and it can wear out the teeth on the gears faster. If you really want to avoid the SRAM chains, I'd stick with the KMC*. I believe those are the same as the 12s Eagle MTB chains.

*not sure on the new KMC, if it's labeled as SRAM Road/Flattop compatible, its probably fine, otherwise, it's probably designed to replace Eagle.
* There is a 70% chance that what you have just read has a peppering of cynicism or sarcasm and generally should not be taken seriously.
I'll leave it up to you to figure out the other 30%. If you are in any way offended, that's on you.

PoorCyclist
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

I was looking at the ratio spool conversion for 10 speed shifter and found the following... conclusion
use flat top chain with AXS cassette. Shimano 12 speed cassette may not work well with SRAM kit.

Can I use an Eagle chain on a SRAM road 12 speed cassette?
No – you’ll need SRAM’s Flattop™ chain. Despite both Eagle™and Flattop™ chains being 12 speed, Eagle™ chains are wider and have standard 7.7 mm rollers instead of the Flattop™ 7.9 mm rollers. Using the wrong chain feels like you’re pedalling a bag of rocks (trust us, we’ve tried it).

Can I use a Ratio upgrade kit with a Shimano Hyperglide+ 12 speed MTB cassette?
Our upgrade kits are designed specifically for SRAM Eagle compatible cassettes. SRAM & Shimano cassettes do not have constant spacing and, in two regions of the cassette, the deviation between them is large enough to cause clicking and ghost shifting. We’ve tried this combination and although some users may find it tolerable, we believe that you should keep that OEM feel when converting to wide range 1x.

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MattMay
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by MattMay

I guess it’s not technically a road cassette but I use a Force 10-36 12-speed cassette with an Eagle chain on my road bike (Factor O2 VAM) set up as a 1x AXS Force drive train (Easton ec90sl crank, 40T ring). Works beautifully. Silent, smooth, light. (Bike is 6.3kg all in…perfect climbing bike)

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