My Fred Whitton Journey...

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CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

I use a SRAM 11-36 on my Gravel bike with an Ultegra GS rear mech, shifts perfectly and there's plenty more b screw to screw in.

JMeinholdt
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Location: Topeka, KS

by JMeinholdt

satanas wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:04 am
IMHO you cannot have too low a gear for Wrynose or Hardknott - they're 33% in places, perhaps more on some corners.

FWIW, Shimano GS road derailleurs will handle an 11-40 cassette with 16T front difference without any trouble on many frames. No, this is not officially sanctioned by Shimano, but it definitely works as I've done it for loaded touring and there are numerous YouTube videos about it too.

Best of luck with the weather. :thumbup:
I have an Ultegra RX, which is just a shimano long cage RD with a clutch added. It didn't like a 42T, but I've been running it for a while with a 40T for a while in 1x configuration. Have a couple of vids on my YT detailing it.

I can't comment on the ride, but if it's 33% in places, the lower the better. A grade that steep is manageable by a relatively fit person on a short ride, but if you have hours into your legs already, it'd be painful even for really fit people.
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sigma
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by sigma

So despite having been born and lived in the UK as an adult (but the US for most of my life), I knew nothing of this ride but am intrigued now. I think I will attempt the 2023 edition. For the kind of grades you guys are describing, I would run my Rockies edition gravel bike: Factor LS with a SRAM 10-42 on the back and 46/30 on the front (GRX Di2 2x - shifts just fine!). I rode it last year on some of the more technical MTB trails where I encountered a lot of steep and slippery climbs. What kind of surface is the road on the ride typically and what kinds of wheels / tires did those of you who have completed the ride choose to take?
Lots of bikes: currently riding Enve Melee, Krypton Pro, S Works Crux, S Works Epic Evo, SL7.
In build: SW SL8

Tifosiphil
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:09 pm

by Tifosiphil

sigma wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:02 am
So despite having been born and lived in the UK as an adult (but the US for most of my life), I knew nothing of this ride but am intrigued now. I think I will attempt the 2023 edition. For the kind of grades you guys are describing, I would run my Rockies edition gravel bike: Factor LS with a SRAM 10-42 on the back and 46/30 on the front (GRX Di2 2x - shifts just fine!). I rode it last year on some of the more technical MTB trails where I encountered a lot of steep and slippery climbs. What kind of surface is the road on the ride typically and what kinds of wheels / tires did those of you who have completed the ride choose to take?
Last time I did it I was on 52/36 and 11/28, completely unprepared. Next time I will be using 52/36 with an 11/34!

The roads are okay but not great the main issue is on the day that it will probably be raining and there is so many people, walking, falling or just grinding up the hill until they have to get off. Just give yourself a wide berth around any slower looking riders.

Last time I rode I was on 25's but will up to 28's as a minimum for the next time just to give me some extra comfort over the hours

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

Just a quick question for those involved, was the Fred Whitton route derived from an earlier 200k Audax or Reliability event? As I'm pretty sure I did an event sometime in the late 80s following an almost identical route. Certainly went over Honister, Wrynose, Kirkstone and Hardknott. As I've ridden those few several times, but only once on the same day!

WorkonSunday
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:39 pm

by WorkonSunday

the route does not involve alot of very long straight, so gaps between each gear ratio isnt quite as important as normal road riding. consider going with 1x system that is built around either shimano 10-51 or SRAM AXS 10-52 cassette. once that's done, pick up a pair of Prime Attacquer disc if you are running disc brake bike and i would focus on the rest of the budget on clothing.
sigma wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:02 am
So despite having been born and lived in the UK as an adult (but the US for most of my life), I knew nothing of this ride but am intrigued now. I think I will attempt the 2023 edition. For the kind of grades you guys are describing, I would run my Rockies edition gravel bike: Factor LS with a SRAM 10-42 on the back and 46/30 on the front (GRX Di2 2x - shifts just fine!). I rode it last year on some of the more technical MTB trails where I encountered a lot of steep and slippery climbs. What kind of surface is the road on the ride typically and what kinds of wheels / tires did those of you who have completed the ride choose to take?
there are quite few good youtube video on this, worth watching those as part of the preparation.

there's that famous section where Brad Wiggins had to get off the bike:
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/raci ... imb-282398
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes. :thumbup:
n+1...14 last time i checked, but i lost count :mrgreen:

Knightyboy27
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm

by Knightyboy27

sigma wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:02 am
So despite having been born and lived in the UK as an adult (but the US for most of my life), I knew nothing of this ride but am intrigued now. I think I will attempt the 2023 edition. For the kind of grades you guys are describing, I would run my Rockies edition gravel bike: Factor LS with a SRAM 10-42 on the back and 46/30 on the front (GRX Di2 2x - shifts just fine!). I rode it last year on some of the more technical MTB trails where I encountered a lot of steep and slippery climbs. What kind of surface is the road on the ride typically and what kinds of wheels / tires did those of you who have completed the ride choose to take?
I did it this year with a 46/30 and 11-32 gearing. Managed all the climbs without getting out of the saddle, but be prepared to hold at least 4W/kg+ for 5 minutes with that gearing.

Road surface in general is terrible. 28mm Gp5000 worked well for me.

Keep to the centre of the road as much as possible due to the light gravel that spills onto the edges that can get slippery.

Potholes galore on some of the steepest descents I've ever seen, so fresh brake pads/discs is highly reccomended.

Got lucky with the weather, absolutely pissed it down for a bit over an hour but it was in the middle section where there isn't much tough climbing, and Hardknott had dried up by the time we got there.

Key is balancing your weight so that you have enough weight on your rear wheel for grip, but you aren't leant too far back as the front wheel will lthen lift up.

Cracking day out, would highly reccomend it. Managed to recce the course over 2 days on a weekend earlier in the year which helped a lot in learning how to pace it etc. (plenty of people out of the saddle pushing hard on the 1st climb of the day, then 6 hours later blowing up hard on the later climbs)

jih
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

I've ridden hardknott pass, but not in the event.

The key thing is super low gearing. Not only is it 33% in parts -insanely steep - but the road is also in terrible condition. Tyres with good grip matter since the cadence will be so low and the rear wheel lightly weighted as you stand up.

I did it on 34/30 as a fit man in my late 30s and above-average hill climber. For a fairly well known reference, I do ditching beacon in about 5:20. I didn't walk any point but I did have to put a foot down to rest about 2/3 of the way.

I'd recommend aiming for well below 1:1 and a sub-compact at least. Something like a 46/30 on the front, and an 11-34 on the back. Even then, plan for a cadence below 60rpm.

On the way up you might have to stop if the road is blocked with other riders walking or falling off. Gearing where you can start again is an advantage.

There are cattle grids near the bottom. Be prepared for an acceleration to get enough speed to be able to coast them without falling. This might be a pinch point where other rides might fall and block the road in front of you.

The descents aren't much fun. The road surface is terrible and they're so steep it is hard to let go of the brakes for any serious length of time. Don't imagine you'll be speeding down like a smooth alpine road.

Very few riders on the day will have the skills to do the descents with any kind of speed and control. A lot will just go down on the brakes the whole way. Plan to work around them.

jih
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:54 pm

by jih

I know I already replied once, but I used to live in wales on top of a 25% hill. That was very steep and hardknott needs a gear about one-third lower again. So if a 25% grade for you needs a 32t sprocket, a 33% needs a 42/43t.

BigCol
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:03 pm
Location: UK

by BigCol

For my ride in the video in the first post - i was using 34x32. At the time I was around 90kg (193cm tall) and had an FTP of around 325W. I'm no hill climber!

My average power for the full hardnott segment was 286W. At times it was much higher (400-500W on the steepest couple of bends), but on the gentle bits i was going steady to keep my powder dry!

I'd done the previous 100 miles quite steady to make sure i had plenty left in the legs - in the end i found 34x32 pretty comfortable and not a particular struggle in the dry conditions - wet would have been more interesting!!

Certainly a lot of people walking as you can see in the video - you have to be comfortable moving around at low speed, and you do need a degree of luck not to get stopped by some of the less considerate folks!

Col.

sigma
Posts: 694
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:12 am

by sigma

Thanks to all of you guys for your thoughts. I am excited to try it. My FTP is around 300 currently with a weight of 76kg, so I think I can manage but I am no mountain goat either and it sounds like a great challenge especially with some of those really steep grades. As the ride is in May, it will force me to get out for some early season training which is always a bit tough here in the Rockies as the snow can often run late. I am pretty tempted to take one of my gravel rigs with some appropriate gearing and run Zipp 303 FC with some wide comfortable tires. Topics like this and learning from the wealth of experiences and perspectives remind me why WW is terrific. Hopefully see some of you guys next May!
Lots of bikes: currently riding Enve Melee, Krypton Pro, S Works Crux, S Works Epic Evo, SL7.
In build: SW SL8

CustomMetal
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Location: UK

by CustomMetal

sigma wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:15 pm
Thanks to all of you guys for your thoughts. I am excited to try it. My FTP is around 300 currently with a weight of 76kg, so I think I can manage but I am no mountain goat either and it sounds like a great challenge especially with some of those really steep grades. As the ride is in May, it will force me to get out for some early season training which is always a bit tough here in the Rockies as the snow can often run late. I am pretty tempted to take one of my gravel rigs with some appropriate gearing and run Zipp 303 FC with some wide comfortable tires. Topics like this and learning from the wealth of experiences and perspectives remind me why WW is terrific. Hopefully see some of you guys next May!
My other friend I did it with has a similar power to weight as you. He did it on his sworks venge with CLX 50 wheels, 52/36 - 11/32 and wouldn't have changed a thing! Definitely a road bike ride! Check out the videos Oli Bridgewood did when at cycling weekly..
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AlanMorgan
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:58 pm

by AlanMorgan

Thanks for all the useful information! Looks like gearing is key. What are your thoughts on clinchers v tubeless for the event?

Broady
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:02 pm

by Broady

AlanMorgan wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:04 pm
Thanks for all the useful information! Looks like gearing is key. What are your thoughts on clinchers v tubeless for the event?
Obviously this is just anecdotal but I've never had a p*ncture in the lakes with clinchers... Surface isn't great at times but there's barely any glass / thorns / detritus about.

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

From the riding I've done round there, it's either going to be a massive pinch puncture of the tire itself or nothing.
Nothing that tubeless is likely to prevent.
I reckon key things for an event like this, or any big ride round there will be grip and rolling resistance in a biggish tire at sensible pressures.

Last time I was up there, I could only fit 25mm tubs (and old school roadie gearing!).
Last edited by ghostinthemachine on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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