Split bearings - full integration for Northern climates

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ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

Is there a reason why split bearings are not used in headsets to allow for a more practical fully integrated cabling. These bearings exist and are preferred in shaft applications to allow for a bearing change without dismantling the main shaft, which is what is needed.

I love the clean look of full integration, but headset bearings are changed at least once per year here in rainy N. England and the idea of re-bleeding brakes makes this impractical. I know the local bike shop is having to charge a lot just to change a bearing.

Is there a reason that this has not been considered or implemented?

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

I'd say once per year is pretty good!

I can't see split bearings being a practical solution from the form-factor point of view.

I normally go for maximum six months without disassembly, three months if a lot of time in the wet.

In order to improve things, on my wet-weather bikes, for the lower bearing I modify a Cane Creek crown race to sit on the carbon crown of the fork, so there is pretty good sealing. It's very awkward to do though - big advantage of a fork without a moulded in seat that can use a normal "sealed" crown race.

Some newer headsets have okay weather-proofing, but I've not found anything to quite match my Cane Creek S8 headset used with a 1 1/8" steerer, on an older bike; I've not had to replace the bearings after a lot of miles in wet conditions (rain etc). Still needs disassembly and cleaning+greasing the outside of the bearings/inside of cups, though only once per year.

by Weenie


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Knightyboy27
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:06 pm

by Knightyboy27

Not new technology, but this article popped up the other day

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ceramicsp ... ranty.html

Theoretically (or maybe even practically??) negating the issue entirely

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

I'd glanced at this, but not looked in detail.
Two things: these are radial bearings, so no good for headsets. I'm not sure that an ACB version can work for a headset bearing.
Last edited by tjvirden on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

Isn't that just a repackaged/copied MTRX bearing from SKF?
Been running them for one and a half winters, a mate took a set out an pulled them apart after 15000km (all weathers). Pretty much look as good as new (two main bearings in a rear hub.)

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

tjvirden wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:47 pm
I'd say once per year is pretty good!
:shock: Bikes with guards, it's usually when i change a major chunk of the groupset (4-5 years if it's my bike, mabe 2 if it's a sponsors). Bikes without guards either go back to sponsor, or if their my bikes, a couple of years before i pull the headset apart, usually preventative rather than repair.

THey do get stripped down when they arrive and properly greased though. Back in the day, it'd have probably been 3-4000 km of wet use, then same again dry use per year. These days it's a lot less.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

Hehe. Early in my road biking, I had a memorable experience riding in wet weather; it was utterly soaking, from above and below, and in a 25 minute fast descent six "sealed" bearings were ruined! Both headset, two in the freehub, one main hub and one BB. There was about 1/3 pint of water sloshing about in the frame too :?

That's uncommon, but I was amazed it happened. If I'd been quick enough to disassemble everything then perhaps some of those bearings would have been okay. That was without any mudguards of course.

High speed in the wet really does get the water through a tiny gap, or past many seals. Mudguards help a lot, but I still find regular disassembly to be necessary.

abatty
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:20 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

by abatty

Got fed up replacing headset and wheel bearings, so now coat them in Ramanol Advanced marine grease https://www.gruebb.com/index.php/show/p ... greases/en Works a treat.

abatty
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:20 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

by abatty

Got fed up replacing headset and wheel bearings, so now coat them in Ramanol Advanced marine grease https://www.gruebb.com/index.php/show/p ... greases/en Works a treat.

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Just got to convince SKF to make their Cooper Split brging a little smaller ID. Looks like the smallest is 240mm.
http://cooperbearings.com/downloads/Eng ... arings.pdf
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

To re-activate this thread: changing headset bearings is the only thing keeping me from a quiver killer disc bike.

What do you think of a race-oriented hydraulic connector to allow headset bearing changes without having to re-assembly and bleed brakes:

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brakes/100- ... -supplied/

?

Maddie
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:44 am

by Maddie

I have used them on an Endurance motorcycle. But on a road bicycle? No way. You simply won't find enough space in the frame for them. You would also have to use metal braided hoses which adds a ton on a bike.

ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

Thanks for that: I think there is room in the head tube and downtime if, as was my idea, these are used with integrated cables. They are too large for external use, but I would think there was room in the frame. Am I wrong?

What is the weight penalty for a a bicycle specific braided set like the ones made by Hope?

ghisallo2003
Posts: 742
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:10 pm

by ghisallo2003

The practicalities of integrated cabling just otherwise seem absurd: having to recable bike or bars merely to replace headset bearings each year. I would rather have an additional 100g tucked in the frame allowing a simple change.

In fact such a bike would at some point have exceptional practicality with the ability to change bars for different purposes, such as TT without having to recable.

by Weenie


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bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

Do you change your headset brgings every year?
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

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