Jockey Wheels Campagnolo Super Record 12s - C-Bear Full Ceramic

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Zorka
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:20 am

by Zorka

elfuinha wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:36 pm
Replacing Jocjey Wheels was Straight Foward withoutt the need to adusjt Rear Derraileur.

I can feel the diference just by turning the Cranks by hand VS the Campagnolo Stock 12s Pulleys.

Here are the pics on the Bike:
Have you tried it on the road yet? I am curious about the shifting difference. I suppose the C-Bear jockey wheels are without any play?

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I find it very difficult to think that Campagnolo would sell a derailleur with non lubricated jockey wheels or anything else with a bushing/bearing. It almost makes this thread turn sour real bad.

Just saying.

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elfuinha
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm

by elfuinha

Zorka wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:41 pm
elfuinha wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:36 pm
Replacing Jocjey Wheels was Straight Foward withoutt the need to adusjt Rear Derraileur.

I can feel the diference just by turning the Cranks by hand VS the Campagnolo Stock 12s Pulleys.

Here are the pics on the Bike:
Have you tried it on the road yet? I am curious about the shifting difference. I suppose the C-Bear jockey wheels are without any play?
Hello

Yes i've tried it on the road... works great...
The jockey wheels have a little play.

elfuinha
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:18 pm

by elfuinha

Butcher wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:13 am
I find it very difficult to think that Campagnolo would sell a derailleur with non lubricated jockey wheels or anything else with a bushing/bearing. It almost makes this thread turn sour real bad.

Just saying.
Since you a shop owner you can see for yourself if SR 12s rear derailleur jockey is bushing or a Bearing... and if they are lubed or not... mine weren't... other could have diferent experience.

Don’t kown, and Don’t understand why you think this thread is sour... this is a Forum... a Weightweenies forum... so People can talk... etc...

I like Campagnolo 12s Group so i bought it... it replase a SR 11s....

I was very desapointed with the jockey wheels from stock... so i upgrade them.

And i'm please with my choise.

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

We are here so we can share our opinions. I'm ok with that. I hope you are ok for me sharing mine.

Campagnolo is a big company. I have a real tough time believing that they could manufacturer a deraileur with a pulley with no lubrication. Yes, anything is possible but with all the automation that manufacturers have at their disposal, I just cannot wrap my head around "No lube". Maybe it's a dry lube. Maybe it's an oil impregnated bushing, heck, I do not know, but the only way I will accept this statement is if I was there. So, who do I believe? If indeed Campagnolo did not lube the pulley, do you think you are the only one? Again, automation would say there are several not lubed out there and I just do not see anyone jumping on your bandwagon.

Obviously, I'm not looking at your pulley and I do believe, you think there is no lube. I just cannot accept that is possible. So, my brain is going into overload. Did Campagnolo not lube or are you mistaken? Sorry, I'm thinking you are mistaken. It does not mean I do not appreciate your thread. It does not mean I think you are an idiot either. Sorry, I just do not trust most things I read at first glance.

Upgrading the pulleys is fine with me. It's people like you that keep those business' doors open. I certainly buy stuff that from small shops too.

Someday when all my EPS12 parts come in [11 months and counting]. The first thing I will do is check the pulley.

As for a shop owner, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to remove that. I do own a shop, but it's fixing Mercedes. And no, 40 years fixing German cars, I have never seen no lube on anything that was suppose to be lubed.

:beerchug:

wilwil
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Butcher wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:24 pm
We are here so we can share our opinions. I'm ok with that. I hope you are ok for me sharing mine.

Campagnolo is a big company. I have a real tough time believing that they could manufacturer a deraileur with a pulley with no lubrication. Yes, anything is possible but with all the automation that manufacturers have at their disposal, I just cannot wrap my head around "No lube". Maybe it's a dry lube. Maybe it's an oil impregnated bushing, heck, I do not know, but the only way I will accept this statement is if I was there. So, who do I believe? If indeed Campagnolo did not lube the pulley, do you think you are the only one? Again, automation would say there are several not lubed out there and I just do not see anyone jumping on your bandwagon.

Obviously, I'm not looking at your pulley and I do believe, you think there is no lube. I just cannot accept that is possible. So, my brain is going into overload. Did Campagnolo not lube or are you mistaken? Sorry, I'm thinking you are mistaken. It does not mean I do not appreciate your thread. It does not mean I think you are an idiot either. Sorry, I just do not trust most things I read at first glance.

Upgrading the pulleys is fine with me. It's people like you that keep those business' doors open. I certainly buy stuff that from small shops too.

Someday when all my EPS12 parts come in [11 months and counting]. The first thing I will do is check the pulley.

As for a shop owner, I cannot for the life of me figure out how to remove that. I do own a shop, but it's fixing Mercedes. And no, 40 years fixing German cars, I have never seen no lube on anything that was suppose to be lubed.

:beerchug:
I have SR 12 speed mechanical and the subject of jockey wheel bearings has come up before. I was surprised that they had bushes rather than bearings but they are sintered steel and they spin really well. I can't remember if they had lube in them or not when I opened the box. I lubricate mine with Purple Extreme lube because its very thin but durable. Previous iterations of Super Record/Record had a bearing only in the bottom jockey. Did Campag just decide to cut corners on their premium groupset or did they decide that the bushes were fine for the job?

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1917
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

My original SR11 had a ceramic bushing on the top and a ceramic bearing on the bottom.

Cut corners or stop wasting money? I think good ceramic bearings will last a long time and that may be cost effective. Not certain I would notice a difference with time reduction on a ride. I'm sold on their crank bearings. I have a set that is still going, Probably 6-8 years but I cannot say for certain.

wilwil
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

by wilwil

Butcher wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:35 pm
My original SR11 had a ceramic bushing on the top and a ceramic bearing on the bottom.

Cut corners or stop wasting money? I think good ceramic bearings will last a long time and that may be cost effective. Not certain I would notice a difference with time reduction on a ride. I'm sold on their crank bearings. I have a set that is still going, Probably 6-8 years but I cannot say for certain.
Yes white ceramic bush on top jockey with 11S. I have crank bearings that are 10-11 years old and been used in winter. The outer ring is discoloured but the bearings still spin free.

usr
Posts: 871
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

Dutifully doing my part in the wastage of money I can report in on yet another candidate, the not quite as absurdly priced KCNC.

Observations: they are absoluty not in the category of "flip it with a finger and watch it slowly spin out", but if that's from the unavoidable seal tradeoff I'm fine with that. No way a bearing that spins "forever" on the inertia held by a mass of single-digit grams could be sealed well. Might be an argument to stick with the slightly cheaper steel version: if you can't have the showoff spin, why bother.

I don't notice any additional noise (they are aluminium), but then I'm kind of deaf to drivetrain noises anyways. People I ride with routinely joke about it (apparently my fat ass blocks sound very well). I opted to keep it close to the original setup, long teeth on the upper and shorter teeth on the lower. When doing a dry run to test width compatibility manually inserting teeth into chain links it felt close enough that I was mentally getting ready to file them down to narrow-wide (benefit of an even number of teeth) but it works well enough as is. Wear will take care of making them narrow-notquitewide soon enough. The manual teeth insertion test with the original plastic upper did not feel noticeable different, except for trying the tooth that was winning on the "wide" position into am inner link: too much Squirt residue to fit, unsurprisingly.

Off topic, this narrow-wide yes or no question made me wonder: if you do have an even number of jockey wheel teeth, and even width (excluding residue..) instead of narrow-wide, what's the point of having teeth in the outers anyways? They aren't needed to transfer torque, they can't do their part in sideways guiding because the inner/outer difference is so much bigger than the bend of a single half-link at the harshest chain angle. Hypothesis: if you can run narrow-narrow instead of narrow-wide you could just as well run narrow-absent (just keep a "floor" for the roller). How could a lively market for weenie-jockeywheels exist for decades without a narrow-absent option ever appearing?

update: now I do think I can hear a difference, cross chaining seems to be more noisy now (seems logical, the lower wheel engages at an angle). Wouldn't mind it if it only happened buttons my cross chaining acceptance threshold (two last cogs on the big/big side, I actually like those giving an audio indication that its time to change rings), but unfortunately it seems to start one cog earlier.

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