The Great Braking Debate Thread (Disc/Rim/Cantilever/Fixie/InsertNewTechHere)

[openwheelracing]

Then, again, why doesn't one company manufacturer all rim rake bikes? If the demand is there, they should make a killing.

No one claimed 100% rim bike demand.
Already answered your question in previous post.
The final answer is $. Higher revenue.

[RyanH]

Rim brakes would mean that my very expensive carbon wheelsets are essentially consumables, no? I get that squeezing the brakes on a set of Meilenstein Obermayers won't cause them to spontaneously decompose, but it's still something that I don't like stomaching.

That's why I run HED's Jet RC6 Black on my Oltre XR4 with eeBrakes. I have way less qualms about braking on an alloy brake track.

Actually, brake track longevity is significantly longer on carbon tracks. Lightweights excluded since they only use like 2 plies on their track but I can't recall the last time I've seen someone post a photo of a fully worn brake track. I put 20k miles on my first set of Reynolds DV46 and the brake track was still fine, no visible grooving. I think I have about 10k on my Bontrager XXX and they still have all the texture.

If you search, there's several threads on this topic. Carbon rims last a very very long time.

[Nickldn]

Rim brakes would mean that my very expensive carbon wheelsets are essentially consumables, no? I get that squeezing the brakes on a set of Meilenstein Obermayers won't cause them to spontaneously decompose, but it's still something that I don't like stomaching.

That's why I run HED's Jet RC6 Black on my Oltre XR4 with eeBrakes. I have way less qualms about braking on an alloy brake track.

Actually, brake track longevity is significantly longer on carbon tracks. Lightweights excluded since they only use like 2 plies on their track but I can't recall the last time I've seen someone post a photo of a fully worn brake track. I put 20k miles on my first set of Reynolds DV46 and the brake track was still fine, no visible grooving. I think I have about 10k on my Bontrager XXX and they still have all the texture.

If you search, there's several threads on this topic. Carbon rims last a very very long time.

Yes, can we please have some proof to substantiate this assertion that carbon rims 'melt', or 'spontaneously decompose' from rim braking.

I'm genuinely interested if this actually happens in real life, or is just a fantasy claim made on forums?

I can't see any wear on my carbon brake tracts at all. I'd like to know if I should really be concerned about this.

[tomato]

Then, again, why doesn't one company manufacturer all rim rake bikes? If the demand is there, they should make a killing.

No one claimed 100% rim bike demand.
Already answered your question in previous post.
The final answer is $. Higher revenue.

No, no, no. You stated:

When they make 10 disc and 1 rim, of course the ratio is 10:1. These numbers are manufactured, not indicative of actual demand.

You're arguing that the demand for rim brake bikes is higher than what is being produced. That means the demand for rim brake bikes is not being met. So, if the demand is not being met, why doesn't some company fill that demand by manufacturing lots of rim brake bikes? It's a pretty sound business model -- produce something where demand exceeds the supply.

[StiffWeenies]

Rim brakes would mean that my very expensive carbon wheelsets are essentially consumables, no? I get that squeezing the brakes on a set of Meilenstein Obermayers won't cause them to spontaneously decompose, but it's still something that I don't like stomaching.

That's why I run HED's Jet RC6 Black on my Oltre XR4 with eeBrakes. I have way less qualms about braking on an alloy brake track.

Actually, brake track longevity is significantly longer on carbon tracks. Lightweights excluded since they only use like 2 plies on their track but I can't recall the last time I've seen someone post a photo of a fully worn brake track. I put 20k miles on my first set of Reynolds DV46 and the brake track was still fine, no visible grooving. I think I have about 10k on my Bontrager XXX and they still have all the texture.

If you search, there's several threads on this topic. Carbon rims last a very very long time.

Thank you. I learned something new today, now time to add new wheelsets to my shopping cart...

[openwheelracing]

Then, again, why doesn't one company manufacturer all rim rake bikes? If the demand is there, they should make a killing.

No one claimed 100% rim bike demand.
Already answered your question in previous post.
The final answer is $. Higher revenue.

No, no, no. You stated:

When they make 10 disc and 1 rim, of course the ratio is 10:1. These numbers are manufactured, not indicative of actual demand.

You're arguing that the demand for rim brake bikes is higher than what is being produced. That means the demand for rim brake bikes is not being met. So, if the demand is not being met, why doesn't some company fill that demand by manufacturing lots of rim brake bikes? It's a pretty sound business model -- produce something where demand exceeds the supply.

No need to repeat your question baiting me to repeat my answer. See posts above.

[tomato]

Then, again, why doesn't one company manufacturer all rim rake bikes? If the demand is there, they should make a killing.

No one claimed 100% rim bike demand.
Already answered your question in previous post.
The final answer is $. Higher revenue.

No, no, no. You stated:

When they make 10 disc and 1 rim, of course the ratio is 10:1. These numbers are manufactured, not indicative of actual demand.

You're arguing that the demand for rim brake bikes is higher than what is being produced. That means the demand for rim brake bikes is not being met. So, if the demand is not being met, why doesn't some company fill that demand by manufacturing lots of rim brake bikes? It's a pretty sound business model -- produce something where demand exceeds the supply.

No need to repeat your question baiting me to repeat my answer. See posts above.

You haven't answered it at all. If this unmet demand for rim brake bikes exists, why are there no companies jumping in to take advantage of it?

[maxim809]

It's not as simple as supply vs demand because the economics of this tech has a deep ecosystem dependency to it.

It's meaningless for a single company to produce rim components if every frame out there only supports disc. "Well, why doesn't that said rim company produce their own rim frames, too!" one might say. Yeah, maybe that could sell a few if the price was right. And an optimist would figure that those few would be the start of many more to come in the future. But I wonder how far that would actually go. I don't think a single company could get rim back into the mainstream unless all brands agreed to jump back on board. Again, coming back to the ecosystem aspect of this.

Hate to use this analogy because at its core these are very different comparisons, but it's like the videotape format wars between Betamax vs VHS. Or HD DVD vs Blu-ray.

At some point, it's very unlikely to tip the scales back once one of the formats has reached mass adoption.

[G104xG320]

At a time when disc brake overflows, rim brake will only become more top end.

[openwheelracing]

You haven't answered it at all. If this unmet demand for rim brake bikes exists, why are there no companies jumping in to take advantage of it?

page 3, 9th post.
Summary, higher revenue, higher margin.

[openwheelracing]

At a time when disc brake overflows, rim brake will only become more top end.

That's exactly how manufacturers want it. Pure marketing genius. Learn from the best: Rolex.
Push disc now, raise prices as high as possible, increase weight as much as possible. Drop the Aethos. Rinse and repeat.

[G104xG320]

At a time when disc brake overflows, rim brake will only become more top end.

That's exactly how manufacturers want it. Pure marketing genius. Learn from the best: Rolex.
Push disc now, raise prices as high as possible, increase weight as much as possible. Drop the Aethos. Rinse and repeat.

But Aethos is not rim brake, it is still a disc brake bike which is contradictory to lightweight.
So overall, I don't understand the meaning of Aethos.

I am in fact not interested in most of the road bikes nowadays simply they are disc brake.

[usr]

New to the sport folks generally don’t want anything in particular.

New to the sport folks want disc because they all have ridden rim brakes at some earlier point in their lives and those usually happened to be terrible examples of rim brakes.

[Andrew69]

Hate to use this analogy because at its core these are very different comparisons, but it's like the videotape format wars between Betamax vs VHS. Or HD DVD vs Blu-ray.

At some point, it's very unlikely to tip the scales back once one of the formats has reached mass adoption.

Off topic here, but the Beta vs VHS/HD DVD vs Blu-ray was settled way before the masses had a say.
It was decided by the porn produces and their format of choice. Whatever format they settled on was the one that was adopted by the masses

As far as the disc vs rim debate goes, I will happily take the hit to bike weight to ensure I have superior modulation and stopping power in all conditions by using discs
On my tri bike however, you can have my rim brakes when you pry them from my cold, dead hands

Horses for courses people. No one system is best for everything or everyone.

[TobinHatesYou]

If you search, there's several threads on this topic. Carbon rims last a very very long time.

But with the caveat of accelerated wear in wet conditions. Also outside of Bontrager and Zipp Showstopper texturing, which braketracks are actually decent in wet conditions? Campy?

I don’t know how many miles I have on my 5.6s, but it has to be in excess of 20000mi by now.