The Great Braking Debate Thread (Disc/Rim/Cantilever/Fixie/InsertNewTechHere)

[tomato]

We mods will probably instantly regret this but this will be the designated area to discuss anything braking related like rim vs disc.

A few ground rules:

Is humor allowed?

[bikeboy1tr]

I have made the transition to disc with a V2R but I still have my old rim brake V2R and the weight difference isnt too bad 6.6kg for the rim and 7.2kg for the disc which I can live with. I like the feel of disc braking and the lack of carbon/rubber dust all over the forks and stays from rim brakes but the screeching noise from disc in the wet is definitely an irritating issue but thankfully my rain riding is limited. I dont favor one over the other but I think discs are here to stay so I might as well get used to it. Think I can make the disc lighter yet still so there is that goal in mind. The rim brake is going to be my backup bike for nasty weather and when the disc is down for maintenance or whatever.

[wheelsONfire]

It seems rim brake will be a total niche product, perhaps that's why it will cease to be upgraded or even exits?
Same with mechanical, or?
In some ways i think it's weird. Progress is normal, but in some ways i still feel i have a hard time seeing this happen.
However, for lbs it's great because when it comes to electronics and disc brake they will have lots more bikes in for service and electrical issues.

[openwheelracing]

1. Demand for rim didn't go away "completely", but manufacturers are artificially creating demand for disc. Fact is rim brakes bikes sell like hot cakes, but margin of profit is higher on disc.

2. The on/off feel of disc brake sucks. Shimano needed servo wave on road setup. I wouldn't ride anything outside GRX or latest 12 speed with servo wave.

3. Rim brake is technically disc brake with symmetrical setup while "disc" is assymetrical. Disc wheels are inherently heavier especially front wheel.

That said, bring on the disc brakes. I just hate to see manufacturers forcing disc while jacking up prices and moving the weight goal post.

[usr]

but my next bike is supposed to avoid those horribly big hydronic hoods by moving to the mechanical disc calipers.

You might want to stock up on some of those Giant Conduct SL monstrosities while they are still available. Some part of me has been trying to convince me of doing so for quite a while now

[Mr.Gib]

...but I think can now be as low as a 150g advantage for rim brakes, trying to use approximately equivalent parts...

Specifics? My rim brake of choice is EE. That's 160 grams for the set. While a set of top end hydro calipers is double that, it's the addition of two 100 gram rotors that sinks my ship. And if you are comparing mechanical rim vs mechanical hydro disc, the difference is massive.

Love my disc bikes, and I could forgive all the extra weight if we could get rid of the noise when roads are wet.

[wheelsONfire]

It's so perfect for the industry that most are convinced they should ride 28-30mm on a road bike now. This way most people won't notice that disc brake bikes ride harsher than it's rim brake sibling. Ofcourse bikes will weight more. You need more spokes on a disc wheel (atleast front), a beefed up frame, also the aero trend with chunky profiles, fatter tires requires larger rims (otherwise the aero is out the window). No wonder UCI will never need to drop the 6800g limit.
I mostly wonder how things will turn out the following 5 years. Perhaps it's too short of time span to ask for any significant progress?
In some ways cycling is in a mode of huge changes. Ask any old dude and you'll see that they will mention weight. Soon we may not see anything but electrical bikes with funky design and bling bling LED lights in the frame, baked in GPS and a tool box for spare tire and a chargeable tire inflator.
I kind of wonder when turn signals and front and rear light are baked into these so called bikes we ride.

[openwheelracing]

Lots of room for disc improvement. I hope to see the pro peloton force the issue.

[tomato]

I use both rim and disc, on road bikes, and plan on doing so indefinitely. I'll quibble over the weight difference - it's a difficult comparison to make, but I think can now be as low as a 150g advantage for rim brakes, trying to use approximately equivalent parts. Though sometimes disc is much heavier.

Yeah, the weight difference is coming down. My disc brake road bike came in 230 g heavier than the rim brake version, and that was 2.5 years ago.

[PoorCyclist]

Is there some way to increase the braking power of cantilever brakes? Sometimes I have to pull so hard on steep grades it feels like maybe the cable stretch have something to do with it. I have tektros but I see they have these more expensive ones, shorty etc.
I already got the kool stop dual compound on them.

However, there is never any need to mess with them, I am never kneeling down, wasting time to center or straighten etc, I'm always immediately out riding and it is not something I have to think or check.. They just work. I was very set on selling the bike with the canti or upgrade at the fork to hydro disc, but the more I ride other bikes the more I really appreciate the simplicity of it.

[ooo]

I have tried flat bar bike with rear rim brake + full hydraulic front disc brake, and it was very usable.
for travelling, you will have very good braking and you are not dependant on hydro service availability
(in case something happend with hydraulics, you can continue to ride with rear rim brake)

It is not possible to have symmetrical road shifters with rear rim brake + full hydraulic front disc brake
but it is possible to have symmetrical road shifters with rear rim brake + semi hydraulic front disc brake (cable actuated)

I think trp spyre is not very strong, cable actuated hydraulic calipers is better

PoorCyclist, try links brake housing
https://www.starbike.com/en/jagwire-road-elite-link-ltd-brake-cable-set/
https://www.starbike.com/en/jagwire-road-elite-link-brake-cable-kit/
https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/links-brake-housing.html

review:
https://www.starbike.com/weightweenies/blog/?p=427

[TobinHatesYou]

If you don't want disc brake squeal, use SwissStop Disc RS pads. They will only start to squeal in the coldest and wettest conditions, not mild cold and very wet.

Rim brakes on textured carbon braketracks aren't even quiet, so I continually find the noise complaint amusing. Maybe the justification is that the psshhhheeewww doppler effect sounds "cool" though. I always found it annoying because of the delay between sound and actual braking effect.

[TobinHatesYou]

1. Demand for rim didn't go away "completely", but manufacturers are artificially creating demand for disc. Fact is rim brakes bikes sell like hot cakes, but margin of profit is higher on disc.

2. The on/off feel of disc brake sucks. Shimano needed servo wave on road setup. I wouldn't ride anything outside GRX or latest 12 speed with servo wave.

3. Rim brake is technically disc brake with symmetrical setup while "disc" is assymetrical. Disc wheels are inherently heavier especially front wheel.

That said, bring on the disc brakes. I just hate to see manufacturers forcing disc while jacking up prices and moving the weight goal post.

Demand for rim-brake bikes here is near zero, and don't tell me that isn't true in SoCal. It's already been pointed out that Factor's O2 Disc outsells the O2 Rim by 10:1. The same was true of the last-gen Trek Emonda and the Madone.

The on/off feel you speak of was unique to Shimano. SRAM and Campy/Magura never had this problem.

Disc clincher rims can be hookless. Show me all the rim-brake wheelsets that are lighter than the 353 NSW and 454 NSW. There aren't many, and most are tubulars. The Zipp rims could be even lighter if they went with carbon spokes and a more exotic hub.

[ooo]

With front disc + rear rim brake setup it is possible to choose desired sound effect:
silent rear rim braking (without scaring peoples around)
loud front disc braking (to attract the attention of car drivers)

[usr]

It's so perfect for the industry that most are convinced they should ride 28-30mm on a road bike now. This way most people won't notice that disc brake bikes ride harsher than it's rim brake sibling.

It's somewhat chicken/egg: rim brake calipers that allow wider tires would be suffering hard from flex if they aren't built as massive as a vise.

If wide tires cause and are caused by disc and if my pet theory is true that the stalemate between conventional and motor shifting was only brought to an end by hydraulic brake lines then we can conclude that it's Jan Heine who indirectly killed mechanical shifting. Yeah, I surely didn't see *that* coming.