The Great Braking Debate Thread (Disc/Rim/Cantilever/Fixie/InsertNewTechHere)

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

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bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1122
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

I would say when comparing rim brake and disc wheelsets that the disc and lockrings should be included on the weigh in. I didnt weigh my Bora Ones until I got the discs and then installed them and weighed them but without the TA which I wasnt too sure if I should have included them in with the wheelset or not.
The rimbrake V2R I have with the direct mount brakes actually feels pretty close to the brake feel of my discs as they are noticeably more powerful than that of the older style rim brake. I know they chew up brake pads quicker than my older standard brakesets. The learning curve for disc brakes I think is pretty quick. But then again I come from a moto background and disc brakes were all a part of that. I do remember being quite excited about getting my first disc brake set up on my dirt bike cause that was light years ahead of drum brakes supplied at the time. Yeah baby one finger braking here I come was all I could think.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=154188
2018 Colnago V2R Rim Brake
2019 Colnago V2R Disc Brake
2014 Norco Threshold Disc Brake
2006 Ridley Crosswind Rim Brake

by Weenie


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Miller
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Reading, UK

by Miller

Game over for rim - Froome endorses discs.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris- ... is-set-up/

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Lewn777
Posts: 1261
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:35 am

by Lewn777

Miller wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:55 am
Game over for rim - Froome endorses discs.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris- ... is-set-up/
Great news. I'll get my team of mechanics to iron out all the issues with mountain bike brakes so they can work well on my road bike too. :thumbup:

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

MTB brakes work pretty well on my road bike.

DHG01
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

So these guys ran a test. I know it's in Spanish; 10m 30 sec includes a visual summary.

There not claiming a scientific test nor taking their views as serious as some of the tali-brakes we find in some of these threads; just a bunch of buddies fooling around. Some rather discs, others rim.

They only tested in the dry; but various runs at various speeds. Braking on the hoods and in the drops. Both bikes with the same tyres.

It seems a decent test to me. Overall rim brakes better; I am getting the impression this is because discs are 140 mm. But would like to know what others think is driving results in this test.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7fKOUDjJg

tritiltheend
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:42 am

by tritiltheend

tanhalt wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:10 pm

Image
Tom, I love your posts... but really. A thin, fragile fairing on a wheel that gets offroad use? Don't count on that particular example getting a lot of traction... or any at all.

Of couse I'm influenced by gravel riding in New England, where a ride isn't considered legit unless it has the obligatory section of MTB terrain, with rocks that would just love to get a bite of that thin carbon.

I actually don't mind folks like you pushing back against discs because maybe it'll help push some needed improvements to the technology. But for me the ability to swap wheels quickly with very different tire and rim widths trumps all. File your wish for the industry to push hydro rim calipers that could do the same thing in the hopeless cause bin.

Hite rite? There's one bit of kit I've used in the past that I have zero desire to revisit.

DHG01
Posts: 577
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

PoorCyclist wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:17 pm
Is there some way to increase the braking power of cantilever brakes? Sometimes I have to pull so hard on steep grades it feels like maybe the cable stretch have something to do with it. I have tektros but I see they have these more expensive ones, shorty etc.
I already got the kool stop dual compound on them.

However, there is never any need to mess with them, I am never kneeling down, wasting time to center or straighten etc, I'm always immediately out riding and it is not something I have to think or check.. They just work. I was very set on selling the bike with the canti or upgrade at the fork to hydro disc, but the more I ride other bikes the more I really appreciate the simplicity of it.
I find Mini Vs a good alternative to cantis. The require less force on the lever. However, setup is somewhat restricted with Sram levers.

tomato
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:37 pm

by tomato

Miller wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:55 am
Game over for rim - Froome endorses discs.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris- ... is-set-up/
It's like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." Big bike finally got him.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

True, Froomey just dropped big cash on Factor recently.

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nickf
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Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm

by nickf

Who is Froom?

There goes the marketing lingo again "safer".

tanhalt
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

Miller wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:55 am
Game over for rim - Froome endorses discs.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris- ... is-set-up/
It's somewhat interesting how this comes AFTER he becomes an investor in Factor bikes :thumbup:

tanhalt
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

DHG01 wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:22 pm
So these guys ran a test. I know it's in Spanish; 10m 30 sec includes a visual summary.

There not claiming a scientific test nor taking their views as serious as some of the tali-brakes we find in some of these threads; just a bunch of buddies fooling around. Some rather discs, others rim.

They only tested in the dry; but various runs at various speeds. Braking on the hoods and in the drops. Both bikes with the same tyres.

It seems a decent test to me. Overall rim brakes better; I am getting the impression this is because discs are 140 mm. But would like to know what others think is driving results in this test.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eF7fKOUDjJg
That's a pretty interesting test...but the results are not that surprising, based on the limited amount of lever force vs. braking torque data that actually has made it into the public domain.

Yeah, a 160mm rotor on the front of the disc bike would help that system (theoretically 14% more braking torque based on geometry)...but, there are better braking combinations for the rim system than braking on carbon too...especially if it were ever expanded to a "wet" test.

tanhalt
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

tritiltheend wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:34 pm

Tom, I love your posts... but really. A thin, fragile fairing on a wheel that gets offroad use? Don't count on that particular example getting a lot of traction... or any at all.

Of couse I'm influenced by gravel riding in New England, where a ride isn't considered legit unless it has the obligatory section of MTB terrain, with rocks that would just love to get a bite of that thin carbon.
Well now, you're missing the point of this discussion...don't forget it's in the ROAD (not gravel bike) portion of these forums, and it was the mix of hydraulic calipers and the Turbine Track rim treatment that was being pointed to, not necessarily that it was used on gravel.

But, to discuss the durability of those fairings...I originally wasn't keen on using these wheels for this purpose, but I REALLY wanted to know how the braking on them worked with the Magura calipers, and this was the only set of wheels I have with that brake track. Ideally, I'd just be running some low-profile Ardennes models, but I just haven't pulled the trigger on something like that...So, I just put them on there to see how it would go.

To be honest, and maybe I'm just more careful than most with my line selections, but I've been quite impressed with how little (if any) damage has happened to them in the >2000 miles of majority off-road use. Like you, I tend more towards riding this on the MTB single-track stuff, which here tends to have quite a lot of loose rocks to kick around. I can say that the only (minor) spot of damage on the wheel fairings was there prior to the dirt use, and was the result of a road crash.
tritiltheend wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:34 pm
I actually don't mind folks like you pushing back against discs because maybe it'll help push some needed improvements to the technology. But for me the ability to swap wheels quickly with very different tire and rim widths trumps all. File your wish for the industry to push hydro rim calipers that could do the same thing in the hopeless cause bin.
If something like that happens, it'll be from a small guy...
tritiltheend wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:34 pm
Hite rite? There's one bit of kit I've used in the past that I have zero desire to revisit.
Ha! Don't knock it. The short front-center on this particular frame really calls for some way to drop the post for when things get steep/technical. For those few moments, the Hite-Rite works awesome IMO, and is significantly less expensive, and LIGHTER than a dedicated dropper post. For me, the key in the setup is having a quick-release with a long enough lever so that it's easily opened and closed while riding.

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wheelsONfire
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

tanhalt wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:41 pm
Miller wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:55 am
Game over for rim - Froome endorses discs.
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chris- ... is-set-up/
It's somewhat interesting how this comes AFTER he becomes an investor in Factor bikes :thumbup:
Yeah, it's ridiculous....
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

by Weenie


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DHG01
Posts: 577
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:14 pm
Location: Madrid

by DHG01

tanhalt wrote:
Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:51 pm

That's a pretty interesting test...but the results are not that surprising, based on the limited amount of lever force vs. braking torque data that actually has made it into the public domain.

Yeah, a 160mm rotor on the front of the disc bike would help that system (theoretically 14% more braking torque based on geometry)...but, there are better braking combinations for the rim system than braking on carbon too...especially if it were ever expanded to a "wet" test.
Yeah - in wet, results would have been completely different.


In terms of aluminum versus carbon rim, it's difficult to compare. My impression is latest gen carbon rims brake better that aluminum. My worst recent rim brake experience was 105 + Aksium. That sucked; mind you it was a rented bike and maintenance was probably poor.

But I don't recall 7900+ C35 (aluminum) braking better than 9100 + C40 (carbon).
Last edited by DHG01 on Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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