Shimano phases out mechanical shifting

[ghostinthemachine]

Isn't this a case like with rim brake bikes, I.e., few new bikes are being offered with mechanical DA,

It's not the main driver, but it's certainly a factor at certain price points.

[MikeD]

Anyway, this is about mechanical groups and nothing chews through a shifter cable faster than STI.

Funny, I don't have this problem. I don't use Shimano cables and don't force the shift lever into the derailleur limit screw/stop. Six years now on Jagwire Road Elite cables.

Broken cables are also cause by people continuing to use the bike after the initial signs of a cable with broken/bird caged strands show up, i.e., shift quality deterioration when the cable binds in the shifter.

[TobinHatesYou]

Anyway, this is about mechanical groups and nothing chews through a shifter cable faster than STI.

Funny, I don't have this problem. I don't use Shimano cables and don't force the shift lever into the derailleur limit screw/stop. Six years now on Jagwire Road Elite cables.

Broken cables are also cause by people continuing to use the bike after the initial signs of a cable with broken/bird caged strands show up, i.e., shift quality deterioration when the cable binds in the shifter.

I'm not talking about snapped cables, I'm talking about damaged/frayed cables. STI chews through cables faster than DoubleTap or ErgoPower... that is pretty much an objective fact.

[TobinHatesYou]

The rumors of mechanical's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Mech DA stopped existing because hardly anyone actually wanted it (at the going rate anyway.) Who among us uses R9100 mechanical? Nobody? Okay, we're all part of the problem then.

Isn't this a case like with rim brake bikes, i.e., few new bikes are being offered with mechanical DA, so what choice does a buyer have? I don't know, as I'm not in the market for a new bike and certainly wouldn't buy a DA equipped one. I have several Ultegra equipped bikes, but my latest was 105, and it shifts just as good.

The problem isn't new. It's been this way ever since R9100 came out.

I remember back in 2017 when R9100 was still really fresh, the new Emonda SLR came out and the local shop got its hands on a mech DA model in 56cm. It remained unsold for roughly half a year despite being a brand new lightweight climbing bike with the top of the line Shimano mechanical group in the most popular size. Meanwhile that same shop could not keep mech Ultegra and UDi2 bikes on the racks.

[iamraymond]

WRT no Ultegra mechanical: Ultegra has always been a trickle down of DA with just cheaper, heavier materials. With no more DA mech there is nothing for Shimano to trickle down to the Ultegra level and maybe Shimano didn’t want to develop anything new for their second tier group.

With that said it will be interesting to see what 12 speed 105 will look like.

[Nickldn]

WRT no Ultegra mechanical: Ultegra has always been a trickle down of DA with just cheaper, heavier materials. With no more DA mech there is nothing for Shimano to trickle down to the Ultegra level and maybe Shimano didn’t want to develop anything new for their second tier group.

With that said it will be interesting to see what 12 speed 105 will look like.

And 105 is a trickle down of Ultegra with just cheaper, heavier materials.

If you apply this logic there will be no next gen mechanical 105 either. That would be an exact match for SRAM's strategy: Red/Force/Rival 12s electronic.

Is it likely Tiagra will go 11s and provide a sensible replacement for Ultegra mechanical?

[CarlosFerreiro]

11sp Tiagra to use different shifting setup, so only compatible with Tiagra11 and nothing else?
To add to the mix of the recent discussion, GRX.....GRX 800 di2 as 12sp, others stay as 11? Or is that another 12 mechanical shifter to sort out?

[Nickldn]

11sp Tiagra to use different shifting setup, so only compatible with Tiagra11 and nothing else?

Yes, just like the current 10s Tiagra is only compatible with 10s Tiagra, as well as of course Ultegra 6600 and 6700, not to mention the equivalent Dura Ace.

[Matt28NJ]

Apologies if I missed it... is there a news article reporting the death of Shimano Mechanical... as in, a real source, somewhere?

[robbosmans]

No it’s all just speculation atm

[Ritxis]

11sp Tiagra to use different shifting setup, so only compatible with Tiagra11 and nothing else?

Yes, just like the current 10s Tiagra is only compatible with 10s Tiagra, as well as of course Ultegra 6600 and 6700, not to mention the equivalent Dura Ace.

Tiagra 10s 4700 series it is "compatible" with 11s (4600 series no)............I explain, 4700 RD work with 11s shifters/cassettes......11s RD work with Tiagra 4700 shifters/10s cassettes

[rwoofer]

Well, the last groupset I bought was mechanical Dura Ace 9100 and the same with some of my riding buddies. What we all had in common is that we built our bikes from a frameset. Of all the people I ride with only one has DI2, which was because he bought a complete bike that was only available in DI2.

With no groupsets available anymore, it is pretty much impossible to get mechanical DA or Ultegra if you want it for a frameset. I better look after the 5 mechanical versions I have.....

[CyclingGiraffe]

I am curious as to Shimano's strategy here. For all the talk of costs of developing the mechanical group, the obvious similarities between 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace mechanical groups means that there cannot be that much difference in the cost of implementing across all three groups. That is, the actual designs and internals of all three are virtually identical; as you go higher in the lineup, you get more exotic materials, bearings instead of bushings, etc., but the core designs -- where I expect most of the "development" costs are -- are the same. Perhaps there will be no 12-speed mechanical groupset for Shimano, and 105 will go electronic as well? Or will 105 have a mechanical 12-speed option, and trickle-up to an "Ultegra"-level group?

I am one of those nobodies who rides Dura Ace 9100 (mechanical). It is very light and shifts astonishingly well. I like the simplicity in setup and maintenance. In 7,800 miles, I've had to replace only one rear shifter cable due to breakage, which was easy to do. I was disappointed, but not necessarily surprised, that Shimano did not release a 9200 mechanical group.

I was a little more surprised that there is no mechanical 8100 Ultegra group. In my circles, I would say that mechanical Ultegra is by far the most popular groupset.

[Nickldn]

11sp Tiagra to use different shifting setup, so only compatible with Tiagra11 and nothing else?

Yes, just like the current 10s Tiagra is only compatible with 10s Tiagra, as well as of course Ultegra 6600 and 6700, not to mention the equivalent Dura Ace.

Tiagra 10s 4700 series it is "compatible" with 11s (4600 series no)............I explain, 4700 RD work with 11s shifters/cassettes......11s RD work with Tiagra 4700 shifters/10s cassettes

Kinda......but you can't get all 11 cogs with the Tiagra on an 11 speed cassette, you have to pick if you want to go fast, or go slow.

[MikeD]

Anyway, this is about mechanical groups and nothing chews through a shifter cable faster than STI.

Funny, I don't have this problem. I don't use Shimano cables and don't force the shift lever into the derailleur limit screw/stop. Six years now on Jagwire Road Elite cables.

Broken cables are also cause by people continuing to use the bike after the initial signs of a cable with broken/bird caged strands show up, i.e., shift quality deterioration when the cable binds in the shifter.

I'm not talking about snapped cables, I'm talking about damaged/frayed cables. STI chews through cables faster than DoubleTap or ErgoPower... that is pretty much an objective fact.

That doesn’t explain the long life of the Jagwire cables I’m using. The polymer coated Shimano cables were partly to blame for the short life. Then, I’m sure the radius of the spool and cable bends in the shifter contribute also. I noticed there were two ways to route the cable into the shifter. One was a straighter path than the other. The less the tight bends, the longer the cable life. Alligator makes a 31 strand cable (normally 19 strand) that should also last a lot longer. I’ve got some, but haven’t tried them yet. Also, slamming the shifter into the derailleur limit screw may also shorten cable life, as fatigue life is dependent upon bend radius and cable tension. I’m careful shifting into 1st gear and into the big ring.