Shimano phases out mechanical shifting

[Lina]

The rumors of mechanical's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Mech DA stopped existing because hardly anyone actually wanted it (at the going rate anyway.) Who among us uses R9100 mechanical? Nobody? Okay, we're all part of the problem then.

Isn't this a case like with rim brake bikes, i.e., few new bikes are being offered with mechanical DA, so what choice does a buyer have? I don't know, as I'm not in the market for a new bike and certainly wouldn't buy a DA equipped one. I have several Ultegra equipped bikes, but my latest was 105, and it shifts just as good.

You've got it the wrong way around with both rim brakes and mechanical DA. They're not offering them anymore because people simply don't buy them. They were available and people just opted for Di2 and disc causing the mechanical and rim models sit on the shop floors for ages. So shops stop stocking them because people don't buy them. And because they don't sell the manufacturers stop their support to them. There's no grand conspiracy where the manufacturers are stopping the development and sales of models people want because they want to push other tech.

Kinda......but you can't get all 11 cogs with the Tiagra on an 11 speed cassette, you have to pick if you want to go fast, or go slow.

You can. I literally have 11 speed Tiagra on my commuter/gravel bike. On 4700 Tiagra the cable pull is identical to 11 speed Shimano mechanical. Pair it with 11 speed shifters and you have a 11 speed RD. Pair any 11 speed Shimano RD with 4700 shifters and you have a 10 speed RD.

I am curious as to Shimano's strategy here. For all the talk of costs of developing the mechanical group, the obvious similarities between 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace mechanical groups means that there cannot be that much difference in the cost of implementing across all three groups. That is, the actual designs and internals of all three are virtually identical; as you go higher in the lineup, you get more exotic materials, bearings instead of bushings, etc., but the core designs -- where I expect most of the "development" costs are -- are the same. Perhaps there will be no 12-speed mechanical groupset for Shimano, and 105 will go electronic as well? Or will 105 have a mechanical 12-speed option, and trickle-up to an "Ultegra"-level group?

I am one of those nobodies who rides Dura Ace 9100 (mechanical). It is very light and shifts astonishingly well. I like the simplicity in setup and maintenance. In 7,800 miles, I've had to replace only one rear shifter cable due to breakage, which was easy to do. I was disappointed, but not necessarily surprised, that Shimano did not release a 9200 mechanical group.

I was a little more surprised that there is no mechanical 8100 Ultegra group. In my circles, I would say that mechanical Ultegra is by far the most popular groupset.

Having to replace a broken cable in 7800 miles isn't a sign of durability. For a lot of riders that would mean being forced to change your cables mid season.

[Coolcat]

Having to replace a broken cable in 7800 miles isn't a sign of durability. For a lot of riders that would mean being forced to change your cables mid season.

Then what is durability...would you say brake pad replacement after 7800 miles is a sign of durability? Or 7800 miles for a tyre? Or a chain?

[kode54]

I've replaced several cables for friends on 7800 and 7900, even 9000. When some cut housings, they don't finish the edges...and when I remove the frayed cable and housing, the ends are rough and as smooth as they may appear...over time, it will abrade the multi braided steel cable and eventually break. That's been my observation on those mechanical groups. I use a grinder to smooth out the ends after cutting and make sure the center section is as open as can be. I haven't had any snapped or broken cables myself.

[robbosmans]

I guess if we are talking about Shimano, we also should mention Sram, they have basically given up on road/gravel mechanical a while ago.

[DaveS]

At least SRAM sells force axs levers for rim brakes, so you can convert your rim brake frame to 12 speed electronic. I've done that and now use them on two disc frames, thanks to Juin-Tech GT calipers. Two levers plus calipers is about $500. No hoses to bleed, easy contact point adjustment, just like rim brakes.

[CyclingGiraffe]

Having to replace a broken cable in 7800 miles isn't a sign of durability. For a lot of riders that would mean being forced to change your cables mid season.

I'm not saying they're indestructible; simply that they're not the fragile disasters people seem to think they are. After all, is replacing one rear derailleur cable in that time (a ten-minute job, at most) so tough (have not had to replace the front . . . yet)? I've replaced two sets of (rim) brake pads, three chains, and four tires in that mileage since switching over to 9100 a little over a year ago.

[Lina]

Having to replace a broken cable in 7800 miles isn't a sign of durability. For a lot of riders that would mean being forced to change your cables mid season.

Then what is durability...would you say brake pad replacement after 7800 miles is a sign of durability? Or 7800 miles for a tyre? Or a chain?

Tires, chains, brake pads, etc. are all designed as consumables and usually easy to change.

After all, is replacing one rear derailleur cable in that time (a ten-minute job, at most)

Depending on your frame. Yes on some frames it's a 5 minute job, on others it's a nightmare.

[CyclingGiraffe]

After all, is replacing one rear derailleur cable in that time (a ten-minute job, at most)

Depending on your frame. Yes on some frames it's a 5 minute job, on others it's a nightmare.

Just curious -- on which frames is it a nightmare?

[MyM3Coupe]

Just curious -- on which frames is it a nightmare?

.

Prolly internal routed frames, which suck for running a mechanical drivetrain. I like how Time used to offer separate mechanical/electric frames. Internally routed mechanical will NEVER shift as well as externally routed frames. It's physics and friction.

[openwheelracing]

Yeah internally routed cable is more finicky. I find internally routed full cable housing quite good though.

[Beto - XC]

Only some small details missing...

[ehlpitel]

Just curious -- on which frames is it a nightmare?

.

Prolly internal routed frames, which suck for running a mechanical drivetrain. I like how Time used to offer separate mechanical/electric frames. Internally routed mechanical will NEVER shift as well as externally routed frames. It's physics and friction.

Meh, get some plastic cable guides and use those for swapping cables-makes it MUCH less painless and they're less than $10 on Amazon.

[neomoz]

Replacing a cable is easier and cheaper than replacing a worn battery. I prefer the simplicity and always working setup of mechnical.

But bike brands seem hell bent on killing us by routing cables through the steerer tube, so that means mechanical isn't desirable with that kind of routing/design ethos.

I also honestly thought the pricing of electronic would come down over time not go up in price, everything else electronic in the world tends to go down in pricing and become more accessable, but not in bizaro cycling world where road bikes cost more than motorcycles now.

[TobinHatesYou]

Replacing a cable is easier and cheaper than replacing a worn battery. I prefer the simplicity and always working setup of mechnical.

But bike brands seem hell bent on killing us by routing cables through the steerer tube, so that means mechanical isn't desirable with that kind of routing/design ethos.

I also honestly thought the pricing of electronic would come down over time not go up in price, everything else electronic in the world tends to go down in pricing and become more accessable, but not in bizaro cycling world where road bikes cost more than motorcycles now.

Now that depends on what kind of cable you're using, eh? Jagwire Elite cables are $25 a pop. Generic steel cables are $3. An eTap battery costs $55 and it's a lot easier to replace than any shift cable, wouldn't you agree?

Also in 5.5 years, I have not needed to replace my original eTap batteries. I mark all of my batteries with little color coded Avery dot labels. And while I know there has been some capacity reduction, I can't really tell. They easily last 300mi or about a week of riding.

So if I replace 2x Jagwire or DA Sil-Tec treated cables every 1.5 years, the cost would be about the same as if my oldest batteries stopped working after 6 years. I doubt that's going to be the case. If I replace my cables once a year, then the eTap batteries are already cheaper to run.

Oh and when replacing batteries, I don't have to mess with cable tension / indexing.

[Lina]

Just curious -- on which frames is it a nightmare?

.

Prolly internal routed frames, which suck for running a mechanical drivetrain. I like how Time used to offer separate mechanical/electric frames. Internally routed mechanical will NEVER shift as well as externally routed frames. It's physics and friction.

Meh, get some plastic cable guides and use those for swapping cables-makes it MUCH less painless and they're less than $10 on Amazon.

What if the frame doesn't have big enough holes to get the plastic cable guide inside it?