SRAM AXS shifters with Shimano 12 speed road cassette?

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Ferrit
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:52 pm
Location: Thames Ditton

by Ferrit

This thread has been useful. I now have the confidence to give this a go.

I am building a race bike for my son who joined Hillingdon early this year.

I found a nice 48cm x 48cm carbon frame, but then realised the kids gearing rules would have left him with a couple gears, when set up legal.

What seems to be better is a 1x11 or 12 setup so I have bought a mint used 1x12 etap Red mech and shifters, but the wheels are 10/11 speed Shimano. I have looked and there is a slim chance I can get a Sram freehub, but frankly I would rather not.

So I will buy a shimano 11-30 12 speed Ultegra 8100 cassette and a shimano chain. Front chainset is currently a Shimano double, just using the 34t small chainring. Next I will look for a single CR CS I can swap CR's on from legal to race to something more usable if needs be.

I will let you know how I get on

cajer
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:26 am

by cajer

Ferrit wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:24 pm
This thread has been useful. I now have the confidence to give this a go.

I am building a race bike for my son who joined Hillingdon early this year.

I found a nice 48cm x 48cm carbon frame, but then realised the kids gearing rules would have left him with a couple gears, when set up legal.

What seems to be better is a 1x11 or 12 setup so I have bought a mint used 1x12 etap Red mech and shifters, but the wheels are 10/11 speed Shimano. I have looked and there is a slim chance I can get a Sram freehub, but frankly I would rather not.

So I will buy a shimano 11-30 12 speed Ultegra 8100 cassette and a shimano chain. Front chainset is currently a Shimano double, just using the 34t small chainring. Next I will look for a single CR CS I can swap CR's on from legal to race to something more usable if needs be.

I will let you know how I get on
Please let us know. This seems to be the first test of this combo!

by Weenie


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DaveS
Posts: 3922
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:34 pm
I wonder if Sram changed the rollers to have better engagement with that 10T cog they are using. Think I have seen comments about that 10T having poor engagement when running larger chainrings.
The shimano 12 chain rollers are a little smaller than some others at about 0.302 inch, but the chain standard only limits the roller diameter to a maximum of 0.306 inch. It's common for them to be close to 0.305 inch, but .302 inch still meets the standard. Campy uses the same roller diameter on the Ekar chain as their other chains - around 0.305 inch. Ekar has a 9T sprocket. Sram uses a #40 chain standard with 0.3125 inch maximum roller diameter.

Ferrit
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:52 pm
Location: Thames Ditton

by Ferrit

cajer wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:41 pm
Ferrit wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:24 pm
This thread has been useful. I now have the confidence to give this a go.

I am building a race bike for my son who joined Hillingdon early this year.

I found a nice 48cm x 48cm carbon frame, but then realised the kids gearing rules would have left him with a couple gears, when set up legal.

What seems to be better is a 1x11 or 12 setup so I have bought a mint used 1x12 etap Red mech and shifters, but the wheels are 10/11 speed Shimano. I have looked and there is a slim chance I can get a Sram freehub, but frankly I would rather not.

So I will buy a shimano 11-30 12 speed Ultegra 8100 cassette and a shimano chain. Front chainset is currently a Shimano double, just using the 34t small chainring. Next I will look for a single CR CS I can swap CR's on from legal to race to something more usable if needs be.

I will let you know how I get on
Please let us know. This seems to be the first test of this combo!
Right so I have the eTap 1x12 shifters and rear mech, cassette and chain is on its way. I am strugling to find a suitable (U12 race legal CR in 165mm). So I am going to test the 12x1 on Shimano CR's and Shimano 12sp Ultegra R8100 11-30 cassette in the stand for the time being, I will report back

bikeboy1tr
Posts: 1395
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:19 am
Location: Southern Ontario Canada

by bikeboy1tr

DaveS wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:18 pm
bikeboy1tr wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:34 pm
I wonder if Sram changed the rollers to have better engagement with that 10T cog they are using. Think I have seen comments about that 10T having poor engagement when running larger chainrings.
The shimano 12 chain rollers are a little smaller than some others at about 0.302 inch, but the chain standard only limits the roller diameter to a maximum of 0.306 inch. It's common for them to be close to 0.305 inch, but .302 inch still meets the standard. Campy uses the same roller diameter on the Ekar chain as their other chains - around 0.305 inch. Ekar has a 9T sprocket. Sram uses a #40 chain standard with 0.3125 inch maximum roller diameter.
Wow 0.012" is a fair difference but ppl are still using the Sram 12sp chain on there Shimano and Campy cassettes with little for complaints. I am currently using the Campy 12 chain on my Campy 12sp Record but in the past always used the 11sp Sram chains on Shimano and Campy cassettes. Think I might stick with the Campy chain for 12sp and use the Sram for 11sp.
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PoorCyclist
Posts: 783
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Location: California's country side

by PoorCyclist

Ratio technology which makes mechanical ratchets to work with 12 speed AXS claims that the spacing is different in different parts of the cassettes between Shimano and SRAM AXS cassettes. If they are correct in theory you should not mix and match the shifter and cassettes. But I'm sure some of you have it running acceptably.

elSid
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:59 pm

by elSid

Ratio website says the cassette must be 12sp sram axs for their 2x11-to-2x12 conversion kit. I would love to know if anyone has managed to make it work with a 12sp hg cassette (shimano or otherwise).

If so, I'd buy a kit immediately. No interest in converting my hubs to XD. In fact, I don't think I can (powertap).

bobones
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

I am using a cheap 12 speed 11-34 HG cassette from AliE with all else AXS and it works fine so it's possibly worth a gamble with the Ratio kit,

The whole cassette sits further inboard than an AXS cassette so the RD needs to be micro adjusted inwards quite a bit. I also had to redo my hanger alignment to get it shifting properly at both ends of the cassette, but when it's all set up right, the shifting is sweet and crisp every time.

These AliE 12-speed cassettes predate Shimano's involvement with 12-speed so perhaps the same caveat from Ratio doesn't apply.

The cassette I bought was an all steel Sunshine branded one, which was really quite cheap if a bit on the heavy side. Other 'ultralight' versions with some alu cogs are available, but these are significantly more expensive and probably a lot less durable.

gabpolitely
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:10 pm

by gabpolitely

Ferrit wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:50 am
cajer wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:41 pm
Ferrit wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:24 pm
This thread has been useful. I now have the confidence to give this a go.

I am building a race bike for my son who joined Hillingdon early this year.

I found a nice 48cm x 48cm carbon frame, but then realised the kids gearing rules would have left him with a couple gears, when set up legal.

What seems to be better is a 1x11 or 12 setup so I have bought a mint used 1x12 etap Red mech and shifters, but the wheels are 10/11 speed Shimano. I have looked and there is a slim chance I can get a Sram freehub, but frankly I would rather not.

So I will buy a shimano 11-30 12 speed Ultegra 8100 cassette and a shimano chain. Front chainset is currently a Shimano double, just using the 34t small chainring. Next I will look for a single CR CS I can swap CR's on from legal to race to something more usable if needs be.

I will let you know how I get on
Please let us know. This seems to be the first test of this combo!
Right so I have the eTap 1x12 shifters and rear mech, cassette and chain is on its way. I am strugling to find a suitable (U12 race legal CR in 165mm). So I am going to test the 12x1 on Shimano CR's and Shimano 12sp Ultegra R8100 11-30 cassette in the stand for the time being, I will report back
Any updates on this combination? Looking to do the same on my TT bike but can't be bothered to switch freehubs to XDR. Cheers!

Focus1770
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:07 am

by Focus1770

For anyone interested I just completed a 1x build using Sram Force Axs Shifters/rear derailluer with Ultegra 12spd 11-30 cassette, XTR/Dura-ace 12 speed chain and a Rotor crank with a Pass Quest narrow-wide chainring. Test rode it today over a rolling loop, shifted perfectly and was very quiet.

Hexsense
Posts: 3270
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Hmm, so I can use Sram 12 speed shifters/derailleurs/brakes without having to endure the X-range gearing huh?
That sound like a good way to go whenever I upgrade to 12 speed since I can get Sram Red stuff at similar price as Ultegra 12 speed and Sram Force a lot cheaper than Ultegra.

DaveS
Posts: 3922
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

bikeboy1tr wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:41 pm
DaveS wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:18 pm
bikeboy1tr wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:34 pm
I wonder if Sram changed the rollers to have better engagement with that 10T cog they are using. Think I have seen comments about that 10T having poor engagement when running larger chainrings.

Wow 0.012" is a fair difference but ppl are still using the Sram 12sp chain on there Shimano and Campy cassettes with little for complaints. I am currently using the Campy 12 chain on my Campy 12sp Record but in the past always used the 11sp Sram chains on Shimano and Campy cassettes. Think I might stick with the Campy chain for 12sp and use the Sram for 11sp.
I just noticed this mistake. Sram axs rollers are only 0.003 inch larger in radius than most other chains. It's a trivial difference that's never caused me any problems with Campy 12 or shimano grx cranks.

gabpolitely
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:10 pm

by gabpolitely

Focus1770 wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:45 am
For anyone interested I just completed a 1x build using Sram Force Axs Shifters/rear derailluer with Ultegra 12spd 11-30 cassette, XTR/Dura-ace 12 speed chain and a Rotor crank with a Pass Quest narrow-wide chainring. Test rode it today over a rolling loop, shifted perfectly and was very quiet.
I plan to do the same. Did you have to do any micro adjustments or changes to the settings on the AXS app?

DaveS
Posts: 3922
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:26 pm
Location: Loveland Colorado

by DaveS

A sram axs rd always needs to be adjusted, just like any other. Follow the sram video instructions. Micro adjusting is used to fine tune the shifting with the limit screws backed out. Set the limit screws after microadjusting. The axs app allows selection of sequential or compensating modes. With 1X neither is used.

by Weenie


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sunfire2k5
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:50 pm

by sunfire2k5

Not exactly what you want... But:

I switched from RED AXS to Ultegra DI2 12speed on my kanzo fast now. I first tried 10-36 cassette with shimano chain and that did not work at all. I then reused the old axs chain i had and that worked good.

So di2 with axs cassette needs axs chain. M8100 chain did not work at all. (poor poor shifting and Could not get it dialed in to work).
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