Pinarello Prince vs Paris

[London9921]

Hi

I'm on the lookout for a new bike, which would be my first road bike (I currently own a Specialized Diverge gravel bike). I'm choosing between the Pinarello Prince or Paris 2021. Either 105 or Ultegra. I'm sure 105 will be fine for my level. I mainly want a good carbon road bike, and not a replica of my Diverge.

They have comparable geometry, i believe '56 is a good size, based on this range which my bikefitter gave me - however the stack would be 3-4mm off the lower range. The 58 fit bang on within the range, but i'm thinking the smaller size gives me more versatility and a more agressive geometry?
Stack: 590-620mm
Reach: 370-400mm

56: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/pina ... -2021-560/
58: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/pina ... -2021-580/

Is the Prince going to be much better than the Paris? Anyone who owns or owned one of these? What's your experience?

My current Diverge and its geometry (58)
https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/special ... p-e5-2020/


Thanks

[wheelsONfire]

Hi

I'm on the lookout for a new bike, which would be my first road bike (I currently own a Specialized Diverge gravel bike). I'm choosing between the Pinarello Prince or Paris 2021. Either 105 or Ultegra. I'm sure 105 will be fine for my level. I mainly want a good carbon road bike, and not a replica of my Diverge.

They have comparable geometry, i believe '56 is a good size, based on this range which my bikefitter gave me - however the stack would be 3-4mm off the lower range. The 58 fit bang on within the range, but i'm thinking the smaller size gives me more versatility and a more agressive geometry?
Stack: 590-620mm
Reach: 370-400mm

56: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/pina ... -2021-560/
58: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/pina ... -2021-580/

Is the Prince going to be much better than the Paris? Anyone who owns or owned one of these? What's your experience?

My current Diverge and its geometry (58)
https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/special ... p-e5-2020/


Thanks

Prince FX uses better fibre than Prince and Paris is more slack and upright than Prince and uses cheaper carbon. I don't know if Prince FX and none FX uses same amount of fibre ply. The best of the 3 would for sure be Prince FX which i would pick. In the end i guess it's up to you to decide on how much it's worth?
Anyway, Paris is the budget frame and Prince FX and Prince has same geometry. Just that FX is more refined. If you ask if you will notice and difference between Prince FX and Prince, hm, probably very little. For sure Paris will be parting from both of these other options.

Pinarello is probably one of the most expensive off the shelf bikes/ framesets you can buy for the money.
If you're going from gravel to road, you should go for a road frame that atleast isn't higher than your gravel bike.

[Yoln]

3.5mm lower is my general asumption in terms of stack between gravel and road, so I'd stay with a '56 for sure.

I haven't fell in love with the last Prince (2019) I rented, to say the least. I think Pinarello makes great high-end bikes and I love their F12, but I would avoid their mid range that I find overpriced for the quality. The prince felt heavy on not as responsive as other bikes (my Wilier or the SuperSix evo I ended up renting the following day).

[rollinslow]

I briefly owned a Paris several years ago. It was made poorly and something was wrong with the headset. I sent it back for a store credit within 1 month.

[hannawald]

I agree with guys above. It seems you want some budget friendly bike (tough these days) and deciding whether you need Ultegra vs 105, at the same time you look at Pinarello which is way overprised..try to fell in love with something else and you don't need to make so many compromises. New 12 speed Ultegra is going to be released in couple of days so you may get some discount on 11speed Ultegra bike..

[Karvalo]

3.5mm lower is my general asumption in terms of stack between gravel and road, so I'd stay with a '56 for sure.

???

According to the geometry charts he posted the 56 is 5.5cm lower stack than his gravel bike. The 58 is 3.5 cm lower (and I'd assume he's not running the diverge as low as it can go). So on what do you base the 56 recommendation?

[Yoln]

3.5mm lower is my general asumption in terms of stack between gravel and road, so I'd stay with a '56 for sure.

???

According to the geometry charts he posted the 56 is 5.5cm lower stack than his gravel bike. The 58 is 3.5 cm lower (and I'd assume he's not running the diverge as low as it can go). So on what do you base the 56 recommendation?

"They have comparable geometry, i believe '56 is a good size, based on this range which my bikefitter gave me - however the stack would be 3-4mm off the lower range"

He said it, just answering his question if 3.5cm lower stack is standard, chill-out

[Karvalo]

3.5mm lower is my general asumption in terms of stack between gravel and road, so I'd stay with a '56 for sure.

???

According to the geometry charts he posted the 56 is 5.5cm lower stack than his gravel bike. The 58 is 3.5 cm lower (and I'd assume he's not running the diverge as low as it can go). So on what do you base the 56 recommendation?

"They have comparable geometry, i believe '56 is a good size, based on this range which my bikefitter gave me - however the stack would be 3-4mm off the lower range"

He said it, just answering his question if 3.5cm lower stack is standard, chill-out

The stack is 3-4mm off the low end of the (generous) range of fit his fitter gave him for a road bike. His gravel bike is already 2cm above the high end of the (generous) fit range he mentioned.

So again, what exactly made you recommend the 56 as a good option when the reasoning you used actually puts him squarely on the 58?

(I have no idea why that question woud make you angry )

[BigBoyND]

I agree with guys above. It seems you want some budget friendly bike (tough these days) and deciding whether you need Ultegra vs 105, at the same time you look at Pinarello which is way overprised..try to fell in love with something else and you don't need to make so many compromises. New 12 speed Ultegra is going to be released in couple of days so you may get some discount on 11speed Ultegra bike..

Seems a bit harsh. I have the last gen Prince and the ride is fantastic. Quality looks great all around, too.

[hannawald]

Prince Ultegra Disk is 4000 GBP bike which weights 8.5 kgs and has exposed cables. I just wouldn't buy such a bike if I need to decide between 105 and Ultegra. With bigger cash if you love Pinarello and Dogma is too aggresive for you, why not..for 4000 GBP I would go 2nd hand or maybe Giant, Canyon, what you find discounted, or Ribble - its Endurance SLR Disc has good rating and for this money you have dura ace di2. But if he loves Pinarello then it is not about rationality but emotions and in this case nobody can give you an advice as nobody feels what you feel.

[Mindflash]

Well, most of bike related investments are not rational. Best bang for the buck is also highly dependant on your capabilities, time invested and motivaton.
I am an owner of previous gen Pinarello Prince. Absolutely love it. Just the right blend of stiffness and responsiveness for my flavour. Balanced frame with good cornering abilities. It's looks are quite refreshing amongst all the bikes on our group ride. Yeah, not the lightest and fastest - just like me. Not sure how it'a elsewhere but our Pinarello dealer is top notch. Individual approach to every buyer, basic bike fitting before order, warranty claims (saddle) solved in few days.I do not have same experience with the big brands dealers.
The heavy price tag comes form the frameset. The groupset and price increase between groupsets at Pinarello is simir to other brands. I ride Ultegra and do not have a plan to use DA at my next bike even if I could save money on cheaper frameset.

[istigatrice]

I'll bite,

Pinarello doesn't have the best following on this forum because their frames have a history of being heavy. Some also describe their frames as "harsh" because they're used to more 'regular' frames. Long story short, most bike brands design a frame for the rest of us, and modify it for the pros (different forks, different layups, lower volumes etc). AFAIK there's less modification on a "team issue" pinarello Dogma. Nothing wrong with designing a "better" bike for the rest of us, but that's often why many will crticise a Dogma, it's not designed for our use cases.

That said, the above doesn't apply to the Prince and Paris (they're conventional designs AFAIK). I wouldn't overthink the material differences, focus on the geometry and (separately) compare your use case to the marketing documents, if both bikes fit. Did you want a road bike to tackle some serious road races and grand fondos? Probably go for the Prince, but if you're after a bike to do epic long (road) rides the Paris is marketed towards that. So what do you want from a bike that the Diverge doesn't do? The answer to that Q should help you decide between the two (or even make you look to other brands as well).

Get the size that falls bang on the bike fitters recommendations (especially if they're reputable!). The only reason to get a smaller frame is if the bigger size has too much stack for your fit. If you're super flexible you might run into issues about placing too much weight over the front wheel with a smaller bike, it's better to be balanced on the bike, and that's usually easiest achieved by using a frame size that allows a conventional length stem - so let a reputable bike fitter dictate the size that you buy.

[London9921]

Thanks to all of you for replying! Very helpful.

I do appreciate how a "better" carbon makeup might come out lighter and perhaps even stiffer if the layup is more considered, but honestly think it won't make too big of a difference for me given that i'm a novice/intermediate rider in terms of experience and performance level.

Regarding what @itsigatrice wrote

Did you want a road bike to tackle some serious road races and grand fondos? Probably go for the Prince, but if you're after a bike to do epic long (road) rides the Paris is marketed towards that.

One thing which i've noticed is that I find riding in the drops on my Diverge most comfortable. I suppose it's about not sitting too upright that seems to agree with my body feeling more planted and my lower back a bit more relaxed. With that being said, I rode with a friend the other day who mostly spends his time on a cervelo P5, but rode an Aeroad CF SLX during our ride, and asked him how he compares the various bike positions. He thought he'd be uncomfortable on my Diverge given it's endurance oriented frame and loved the geometry of his Aeroad. Perhaps a too "upright" endurance road bike might not be more comfortable after all, although the Paris doesn't strike me as having such a high stack comparing to some other makes out there such as the Synapse or Endurace?

Yesterday a childhood friends older brother invited me for a gravel ride. He's a quite a few years older than me and in his crew are lots of experienced cyclists of which one is a former pro, who won GC and stages on the WT level. They were true beasts in the forest, pushing 40km/h on the gravel trails. I managed to mostly keep up with them during what was a 65 mile ride - aside from getting dropped on the three big climbs. The experience opened up a new level of fun, where they pushed gravel riding to a whole new level and my motivation increased as i want to reach their level and technique someday. It all made me rethink if a "better" gravel bike wouldn't offer dual services in the future, such as having one extra wheelset and the Grevil entered my mind as a possible contender. Will do some more thinking if N+1 is the way to go, or perhaps selling the Diverge and keeping my 2nd wheelset for additional road riding if a Grevil (or other gravel bike) would be the better choice?

Thanks again!

[wheelsONfire]

Thanks to all of you for replying! Very helpful.

I do appreciate how a "better" carbon makeup might come out lighter and perhaps even stiffer if the layup is more considered, but honestly think it won't make too big of a difference for me given that i'm a novice/intermediate rider in terms of experience and performance level.

Regarding what @itsigatrice wrote

Did you want a road bike to tackle some serious road races and grand fondos? Probably go for the Prince, but if you're after a bike to do epic long (road) rides the Paris is marketed towards that.

One thing which i've noticed is that I find riding in the drops on my Diverge most comfortable. I suppose it's about not sitting too upright that seems to agree with my body feeling more planted and my lower back a bit more relaxed. With that being said, I rode with a friend the other day who mostly spends his time on a cervelo P5, but rode an Aeroad CF SLX during our ride, and asked him how he compares the various bike positions. He thought he'd be uncomfortable on my Diverge given it's endurance oriented frame and loved the geometry of his Aeroad. Perhaps a too "upright" endurance road bike might not be more comfortable after all, although the Paris doesn't strike me as having such a high stack comparing to some other makes out there such as the Synapse or Endurace?

Yesterday a childhood friends older brother invited me for a gravel ride. He's a quite a few years older than me and in his crew are lots of experienced cyclists of which one is a former pro, who won GC and stages on the WT level. They were true beasts in the forest, pushing 40km/h on the gravel trails. I managed to mostly keep up with them during what was a 65 mile ride - aside from getting dropped on the three big climbs. The experience opened up a new level of fun, where they pushed gravel riding to a whole new level and my motivation increased as i want to reach their level and technique someday. It all made me rethink if a "better" gravel bike wouldn't offer dual services in the future, such as having one extra wheelset and the Grevil entered my mind as a possible contender. Will do some more thinking if N+1 is the way to go, or perhaps selling the Diverge and keeping my 2nd wheelset for additional road riding if a Grevil (or other gravel bike) would be the better choice?

Thanks again!

I rode gravel only for about 2 years and then for a day i rode my ex road bike. After that i was hooked by the road bike once again.
So what i try to say is, that while a do it all mix bike works, it will not be same as a premium road bike. I don't know what it is like where you ride gravel, but i rode where it was also a bit like mtb terrain. A road bike will be like a whip compared to a gravel bike.

[MisterNoChain]

I'm also thinking about pulling the trigger on a Pinarello. I was able to testride a F12 (disc) and it kinda blew me away. It felt so stable and planted, wanting to go forward. When i came home i switched the pedals to my Trek Emonda and the bike felt so twitchy comparing to the F12. I've been fortunate to testride bikes like the Trek Madone and Scott Addict and none felt like the F12.

Now my lbs has pre-ordered a frameset of the Prince, slightly different geometry and 100gr heavier then the F12. Reading some of the comments here i hope it is not a big difference compared to the F12 ...