New Benchmark aero road bike: Simplon Pride 2
Moderator: robbosmans
*Sorry, light hearted rant, long*
Its not that weight triumphs aero (opposite is more appropriate in many scenarios), but a light bike is always light and feels light. On the other hand aero gains depend on many factors with a guaranteed weight penalty. Also, how the body and mind behaves when you hit the climb after some rolling terrain ride is not completely understood or researched properly. On paper math, it shows marginally accumulated power savings should help in climbing but is it guaranteed in real world conditions for an average rider with tired body/mind that gains are effective and same as on paper before a reasonable climb?
Aero claims by bike companies are similar to mileage claims by car companies.
100km/4liter *
*without A/C
*Windows closed
*Summer tires at x bars
*At constant speed of 60kmph
*Outside of cities/towns
*One person in the car and no luggage
*etc etc.
In real world driving, how often can these criteria be met?
We all by default, immedialtely know the real world mileage of cars to be much less than the car companies claim because there is very large amount of real world car users' data. I wish I am proven wrong, but I am not seeing such a large users data for actual aero gains. I have only seen chunks and bits on flat sections and not 50 or >100km rides in mixed terrain. May be people have this data but don't want to share.
What we have and what has been beaten to death (in discussions) is the test data from tour-magazin, bike-wheelset companies' favourable data, wind-tunnel test data by third parties (probably funded by bike-wheelset companies) and the math on paper so on.
For aero gains, consumers are just blindly accepting bike-wheel companies', cycling websites' data and not willing to question it. And there are just too many variables. If bike company says, 10 watt gain, it might be only 01 watt real world gain. I dont know.
And I did not want to mention it but anyway will now say it, this same article by cyclingtips when they first posted it last week, they headlined it with "40watt faster bike by Simplon". And few days ago I checked, they have reduced that to "30watt faster aero bike by Simplon".
People here are fretting over 1 or 2 watts and nano seconds and this website simply reduces the aero gains by 10watts!! (25%). This kind of misinformation campaign is disingenious. And no one questions it.
And funny thing is many cycling websites voted Aethos to be the bike of the year - 2020.
Its not that weight triumphs aero (opposite is more appropriate in many scenarios), but a light bike is always light and feels light. On the other hand aero gains depend on many factors with a guaranteed weight penalty. Also, how the body and mind behaves when you hit the climb after some rolling terrain ride is not completely understood or researched properly. On paper math, it shows marginally accumulated power savings should help in climbing but is it guaranteed in real world conditions for an average rider with tired body/mind that gains are effective and same as on paper before a reasonable climb?
Aero claims by bike companies are similar to mileage claims by car companies.
100km/4liter *
*without A/C
*Windows closed
*Summer tires at x bars
*At constant speed of 60kmph
*Outside of cities/towns
*One person in the car and no luggage
*etc etc.
In real world driving, how often can these criteria be met?
We all by default, immedialtely know the real world mileage of cars to be much less than the car companies claim because there is very large amount of real world car users' data. I wish I am proven wrong, but I am not seeing such a large users data for actual aero gains. I have only seen chunks and bits on flat sections and not 50 or >100km rides in mixed terrain. May be people have this data but don't want to share.
What we have and what has been beaten to death (in discussions) is the test data from tour-magazin, bike-wheelset companies' favourable data, wind-tunnel test data by third parties (probably funded by bike-wheelset companies) and the math on paper so on.
For aero gains, consumers are just blindly accepting bike-wheel companies', cycling websites' data and not willing to question it. And there are just too many variables. If bike company says, 10 watt gain, it might be only 01 watt real world gain. I dont know.
And I did not want to mention it but anyway will now say it, this same article by cyclingtips when they first posted it last week, they headlined it with "40watt faster bike by Simplon". And few days ago I checked, they have reduced that to "30watt faster aero bike by Simplon".
People here are fretting over 1 or 2 watts and nano seconds and this website simply reduces the aero gains by 10watts!! (25%). This kind of misinformation campaign is disingenious. And no one questions it.
And funny thing is many cycling websites voted Aethos to be the bike of the year - 2020.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Good rant.
Most sensible people don't do this, it's mainly the domain of internet measurebators, not people who go out and ride. Yes internet forums tend to attract such types.
We all should know by now that your riding position is the most important thing to getting free speed, frames, handles and integrated cables, not so much.
Deep wheels, aero helmets and speedsuits start to make a difference above 20mph, the difference grows the faster we go. It matters less which ones we use, that's what marketing is about.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
The reason most people get much worse fuel mileage than the advertised is because they don't know the first thing about economical driving. And then they wonder why they're using 50% more fuel and blame the car manufacturer instead of their driving style.kar wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:09 pm*Sorry, light hearted rant, long*
Its not that weight triumphs aero (opposite is more appropriate in many scenarios), but a light bike is always light and feels light. On the other hand aero gains depend on many factors with a guaranteed weight penalty. Also, how the body and mind behaves when you hit the climb after some rolling terrain ride is not completely understood or researched properly. On paper math, it shows marginally accumulated power savings should help in climbing but is it guaranteed in real world conditions for an average rider with tired body/mind that gains are effective and same as on paper before a reasonable climb?
Aero claims by bike companies are similar to mileage claims by car companies.
100km/4liter *
*without A/C
*Windows closed
*Summer tires at x bars
*At constant speed of 60kmph
*Outside of cities/towns
*One person in the car and no luggage
*etc etc.
In real world driving, how often can these criteria be met?
We all by default, immedialtely know the real world mileage of cars to be much less than the car companies claim because there is very large amount of real world car users' data. I wish I am proven wrong, but I am not seeing such a large users data for actual aero gains. I have only seen chunks and bits on flat sections and not 50 or >100km rides in mixed terrain. May be people have this data but don't want to share.
-
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:41 pm
Just to throw it out there: I have an Aero road bike (Look 795 Blade RS) and a very much non-aero gravel bike. The road bike typically averages 2mph faster for the same effort and that's when the gravel bike is setup with slicks. I can do about 100 miles in 6 hours on my road bike or about 90 miles in 6 hours on my gravel bike over a mixed flats/climbing average kind of ride. That's a pretty signifigant real world difference. Neither bike is particuarly light.
Forget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
- cyclespeed
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am
I don't think anyone is arguing that aero doesn't trump weight in like 95% of situations.otnemem wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:30 pmForget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
And unfortunately I don't have my own personal wind tunnel and super computers to test each of my bikes, and I doubt if 99.9% of people on here do either. So. regretfully, feelings and 'basic' amateur data are always going to play a part.
- wheelsONfire
- Posts: 6283
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
- Location: NorthEU
That´s pretty much how i would describe the difference between my UP and my Ax bike. None of them are aero, but one is 6Kgs and the other way more.Suppersppy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:22 pmJust to throw it out there: I have an Aero road bike (Look 795 Blade RS) and a very much non-aero gravel bike. The road bike typically averages 2mph faster for the same effort and that's when the gravel bike is setup with slicks. I can do about 100 miles in 6 hours on my road bike or about 90 miles in 6 hours on my gravel bike over a mixed flats/climbing average kind of ride. That's a pretty signifigant real world difference. Neither bike is particuarly light.
Bikes:
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.
Similar result. All last summer I was doing my 90 to 100km loop on my gravel/allroad bike very early in the morning and was logging into work(WFH) at 10:10 or 10:15AM. And this summer on my vial evo ultra , same loop I am logging into office at 9:50AM or 9:55AM.
Some of the feelings roadbikers feel:
flexy, stiff, sluggish, shimmy, twitchy, springy and finally bob (This bob is the most intriguing and mysterious feeling which, to this day, I never understood what it is)
On the Dura-ace thread, people are feeling like they have been bitten by a scorpion on the current (9100?) brakehoods and how 9200 version seems like a vast improvement. There are pages about the subtle feeling of brakehood texture, height and angle. Then feeling about shifting.
Then we have feeling about saddle, bartape, 1mm tire width differnce, 1mm internal rim width difference.
But 1 to 2 or 2.5kg bike weight difference in 100km rolling terrain ride is meh. no feeling.
Some of the feelings roadbikers feel:
flexy, stiff, sluggish, shimmy, twitchy, springy and finally bob (This bob is the most intriguing and mysterious feeling which, to this day, I never understood what it is)
On the Dura-ace thread, people are feeling like they have been bitten by a scorpion on the current (9100?) brakehoods and how 9200 version seems like a vast improvement. There are pages about the subtle feeling of brakehood texture, height and angle. Then feeling about shifting.
Then we have feeling about saddle, bartape, 1mm tire width differnce, 1mm internal rim width difference.
But 1 to 2 or 2.5kg bike weight difference in 100km rolling terrain ride is meh. no feeling.
-
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:21 am
- Location: Austria
This might just be the bike to replace my Venge. I guess i'll have to ask a local dealer about the availability.
Do you guys reckon it's likely Specialized or another big player releases a new aero frame which takes advantage of the relaxed UCI regulations for next season?
Do you guys reckon it's likely Specialized or another big player releases a new aero frame which takes advantage of the relaxed UCI regulations for next season?
10$ Specilaized will re-introduce a new Venge update called the.......... Re-Venge
I still wonder about weight distribution for hill climbing. Will someone tell me if it is better to have a heavier fork on a 22% grade than a lighter grade? I suspect this to be the case. Its marginal for many but when you reach 85kg, then your weight is pushing on the rear and little is on the front. I might go up hill faster on a heavier fork.cyclespeed wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:21 amI don't think anyone is arguing that aero doesn't trump weight in like 95% of situations.otnemem wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:30 pmForget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
And unfortunately I don't have my own personal wind tunnel and super computers to test each of my bikes, and I doubt if 99.9% of people on here do either. So. regretfully, feelings and 'basic' amateur data are always going to play a part.
Bill
That's where Aero comes in again: I have a few climbs that used to be steep enough for me to tip over if I tried riding them in the saddle. Not as steep as you might think though: tall people like me get the same length chainstays as everybody else and given the long seattube at the same (or flatter) angle that puts our rear right over the rear hub, not ahead of it like for smaller people. So our center of mass is not only higher, it's also closer to the rear wheel, easy to tip over while climbing.n1ey wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:53 pmI still wonder about weight distribution for hill climbing. Will someone tell me if it is better to have a heavier fork on a 22% grade than a lighter grade? I suspect this to be the case. Its marginal for many but when you reach 85kg, then your weight is pushing on the rear and little is on the front. I might go up hill faster on a heavier fork.
Enter the Aeroad: I sit flatter and more ahead, suddenly climbs I had to do standing on the Ultimate were possible sitting. Clear aero bike climbing advantage, at less than walking speed
-
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:26 am
Has anyone bought this bike? I like this bike, but I don't have a dealer here.
Untrue. They do a 380. And you're not going to lose 7watts from going from a 380 to a 400.
Realistically they're never going to offer a 360 as demand would be minuscule and it'd be too many SKUs.
Fairly moot though for most who might be interested as I think none / almost none have been delivered, and they're only available in a few Northern / Central European countries as complete bikes only, with shipping to other countries discouraged. If Simplon could have supplied these in decent number, and sold framesets direct to customers living outside their dealer network, they'd have made a killing.
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com