New Benchmark aero road bike: Simplon Pride 2

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

kar
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:33 am

by kar

*Sorry, light hearted rant, long*

Its not that weight triumphs aero (opposite is more appropriate in many scenarios), but a light bike is always light and feels light. On the other hand aero gains depend on many factors with a guaranteed weight penalty. Also, how the body and mind behaves when you hit the climb after some rolling terrain ride is not completely understood or researched properly. On paper math, it shows marginally accumulated power savings should help in climbing but is it guaranteed in real world conditions for an average rider with tired body/mind that gains are effective and same as on paper before a reasonable climb?

Aero claims by bike companies are similar to mileage claims by car companies.

100km/4liter *

*without A/C
*Windows closed
*Summer tires at x bars
*At constant speed of 60kmph
*Outside of cities/towns
*One person in the car and no luggage
*etc etc.

In real world driving, how often can these criteria be met? :noidea:

We all by default, immedialtely know the real world mileage of cars to be much less than the car companies claim because there is very large amount of real world car users' data. I wish I am proven wrong, but I am not seeing such a large users data for actual aero gains. I have only seen chunks and bits on flat sections and not 50 or >100km rides in mixed terrain. May be people have this data but don't want to share.

What we have and what has been beaten to death (in discussions) is the test data from tour-magazin, bike-wheelset companies' favourable data, wind-tunnel test data by third parties (probably funded by bike-wheelset companies) and the math on paper so on.

For aero gains, consumers are just blindly accepting bike-wheel companies', cycling websites' data and not willing to question it. And there are just too many variables. If bike company says, 10 watt gain, it might be only 01 watt real world gain. I dont know.

And I did not want to mention it but anyway will now say it, this same article by cyclingtips when they first posted it last week, they headlined it with "40watt faster bike by Simplon". And few days ago I checked, they have reduced that to "30watt faster aero bike by Simplon".

People here are fretting over 1 or 2 watts and nano seconds and this website simply reduces the aero gains by 10watts!! (25%). This kind of misinformation campaign is disingenious. And no one questions it. :lol:

And funny thing is many cycling websites voted Aethos to be the bike of the year - 2020.

Nickldn
Posts: 1865
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

kar wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:09 pm

People here are fretting over 1 or 2 watts and nano seconds
Good rant. :lol:

Most sensible people don't do this, it's mainly the domain of internet measurebators, not people who go out and ride. Yes internet forums tend to attract such types.

We all should know by now that your riding position is the most important thing to getting free speed, frames, handles and integrated cables, not so much.

Deep wheels, aero helmets and speedsuits start to make a difference above 20mph, the difference grows the faster we go. It matters less which ones we use, that's what marketing is about.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Lina
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

kar wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:09 pm
*Sorry, light hearted rant, long*

Its not that weight triumphs aero (opposite is more appropriate in many scenarios), but a light bike is always light and feels light. On the other hand aero gains depend on many factors with a guaranteed weight penalty. Also, how the body and mind behaves when you hit the climb after some rolling terrain ride is not completely understood or researched properly. On paper math, it shows marginally accumulated power savings should help in climbing but is it guaranteed in real world conditions for an average rider with tired body/mind that gains are effective and same as on paper before a reasonable climb?

Aero claims by bike companies are similar to mileage claims by car companies.

100km/4liter *

*without A/C
*Windows closed
*Summer tires at x bars
*At constant speed of 60kmph
*Outside of cities/towns
*One person in the car and no luggage
*etc etc.

In real world driving, how often can these criteria be met? :noidea:

We all by default, immedialtely know the real world mileage of cars to be much less than the car companies claim because there is very large amount of real world car users' data. I wish I am proven wrong, but I am not seeing such a large users data for actual aero gains. I have only seen chunks and bits on flat sections and not 50 or >100km rides in mixed terrain. May be people have this data but don't want to share.
The reason most people get much worse fuel mileage than the advertised is because they don't know the first thing about economical driving. And then they wonder why they're using 50% more fuel and blame the car manufacturer instead of their driving style.

Suppersppy
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:41 pm

by Suppersppy

Just to throw it out there: I have an Aero road bike (Look 795 Blade RS) and a very much non-aero gravel bike. The road bike typically averages 2mph faster for the same effort and that's when the gravel bike is setup with slicks. I can do about 100 miles in 6 hours on my road bike or about 90 miles in 6 hours on my gravel bike over a mixed flats/climbing average kind of ride. That's a pretty signifigant real world difference. Neither bike is particuarly light.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

Forget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.

User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

otnemem wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:30 pm
Forget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
I don't think anyone is arguing that aero doesn't trump weight in like 95% of situations.

And unfortunately I don't have my own personal wind tunnel and super computers to test each of my bikes, and I doubt if 99.9% of people on here do either. So. regretfully, feelings and 'basic' amateur data are always going to play a part.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Suppersppy wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:22 pm
Just to throw it out there: I have an Aero road bike (Look 795 Blade RS) and a very much non-aero gravel bike. The road bike typically averages 2mph faster for the same effort and that's when the gravel bike is setup with slicks. I can do about 100 miles in 6 hours on my road bike or about 90 miles in 6 hours on my gravel bike over a mixed flats/climbing average kind of ride. That's a pretty signifigant real world difference. Neither bike is particuarly light.
That´s pretty much how i would describe the difference between my UP and my Ax bike. None of them are aero, but one is 6Kgs and the other way more.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

kar
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:33 am

by kar

Similar result. All last summer I was doing my 90 to 100km loop on my gravel/allroad bike very early in the morning and was logging into work(WFH) at 10:10 or 10:15AM. And this summer on my vial evo ultra , same loop I am logging into office at 9:50AM or 9:55AM.

Some of the feelings roadbikers feel:

flexy, stiff, sluggish, shimmy, twitchy, springy and finally bob (This bob is the most intriguing and mysterious feeling which, to this day, I never understood what it is) :D :D

On the Dura-ace thread, people are feeling like they have been bitten by a scorpion on the current (9100?) brakehoods and how 9200 version seems like a vast improvement. There are pages about the subtle feeling of brakehood texture, height and angle. Then feeling about shifting.

Then we have feeling about saddle, bartape, 1mm tire width differnce, 1mm internal rim width difference. :D

But 1 to 2 or 2.5kg bike weight difference in 100km rolling terrain ride is meh. no feeling. :roll: :shock:

scapewalker
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:21 am
Location: Austria

by scapewalker

This might just be the bike to replace my Venge. I guess i'll have to ask a local dealer about the availability.

Do you guys reckon it's likely Specialized or another big player releases a new aero frame which takes advantage of the relaxed UCI regulations for next season?

ViperFFM
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am
Location: Frankfurt am Main,DE

by ViperFFM

10$ Specilaized will re-introduce a new Venge update called the.......... Re-Venge
carbonLORD wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:23 am
I'm a CAT 3 Masters racer, not a dentist.

n1ey
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:53 am

by n1ey

cyclespeed wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:21 am
otnemem wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:30 pm
Forget it. This is like the stories Josh tells about dealing with Contador. There's hard math and measurements showing that CLEARLY aero trumps weight and people still come here to talk about feelings.
Ah well, go ahead, rationalize your preference all you want.
I don't think anyone is arguing that aero doesn't trump weight in like 95% of situations.

And unfortunately I don't have my own personal wind tunnel and super computers to test each of my bikes, and I doubt if 99.9% of people on here do either. So. regretfully, feelings and 'basic' amateur data are always going to play a part.
I still wonder about weight distribution for hill climbing. Will someone tell me if it is better to have a heavier fork on a 22% grade than a lighter grade? I suspect this to be the case. Its marginal for many but when you reach 85kg, then your weight is pushing on the rear and little is on the front. I might go up hill faster on a heavier fork.

Bill

usr
Posts: 888
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:58 pm

by usr

n1ey wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:53 pm
I still wonder about weight distribution for hill climbing. Will someone tell me if it is better to have a heavier fork on a 22% grade than a lighter grade? I suspect this to be the case. Its marginal for many but when you reach 85kg, then your weight is pushing on the rear and little is on the front. I might go up hill faster on a heavier fork.
That's where Aero comes in again: I have a few climbs that used to be steep enough for me to tip over if I tried riding them in the saddle. Not as steep as you might think though: tall people like me get the same length chainstays as everybody else and given the long seattube at the same (or flatter) angle that puts our rear right over the rear hub, not ahead of it like for smaller people. So our center of mass is not only higher, it's also closer to the rear wheel, easy to tip over while climbing.

Enter the Aeroad: I sit flatter and more ahead, suddenly climbs I had to do standing on the Ultimate were possible sitting. Clear aero bike climbing advantage, at less than walking speed ;)

ChairmanJiang
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:26 am

by ChairmanJiang

Has anyone bought this bike? I like this bike, but I don't have a dealer here.

robeambro
Posts: 1829
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:21 pm

by robeambro

Simplon: makes the arguably fastest frame
Also Simplon: handlebars ranging from 40cm to 44cm

Sure, y'all buy this frame, gain 7w with it and lose far more watts than that by not being as aero as you would be on many other bikes.

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

robeambro wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:16 pm
Simplon: makes the arguably fastest frame
Also Simplon: handlebars ranging from 40cm to 44cm

Sure, y'all buy this frame, gain 7w with it and lose far more watts than that by not being as aero as you would be on many other bikes.
Untrue. They do a 380. And you're not going to lose 7watts from going from a 380 to a 400.

Realistically they're never going to offer a 360 as demand would be minuscule and it'd be too many SKUs.

Fairly moot though for most who might be interested as I think none / almost none have been delivered, and they're only available in a few Northern / Central European countries as complete bikes only, with shipping to other countries discouraged. If Simplon could have supplied these in decent number, and sold framesets direct to customers living outside their dealer network, they'd have made a killing.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply