New Benchmark aero road bike: Simplon Pride 2

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

RDY
Posts: 2354
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

I guess the devil is is in the details, but if it has 3 different length stems, and you can move the bars fore and aft 0-50mm on the stem, then that's absolutely huge for fit. Especially for those gradually trying to get flatter back. We really ought to be seeing more of this from integrated setups - this is where their potential lies.

I do rather suspect that it's going to be ridiculously heavy though. Average builds probably over 9kg. I don't buy the 7.8kg in 55cm from the test ... especially as they state that the ARC 1400 Dicut 62mm wheel set is 120g lighter than it actually is.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



kar
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:33 am

by kar

Was reading some article about this bike.
Half serious question:
It is mentioned that pride 2 BB area is built up to benefit from sailing effects. So was wondering if a full frame-bag matching the frame tube shapes will give a similar sailing effect in crosswinds or aero advantage?

A full frame-bag/ frame triangle cover made with light & fine material (<500gram) sewn to a light bike like 6.2kg Aethos. Will this give any aero advantage/ sail effect in crosswinds like in the other aero bikes for ex. Ribble and Simplon pride 2?

Bottles need to be kept in the back pockets or bottle holder attached to the saddle (like in some TT bikes).

spud
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

very much doubt it would work - between the fabric not keeping the required shape (unless you put rigid stringers in it) and potential flapping, to say nothing of the huge sail getting caught in side winds, I think it would not work out well.

Kaludrob
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 2:55 pm

by Kaludrob

2018 Specialized Tarmac Expert

User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

This kind of confirms to me that the Factor Ostro VAM is probably one of the best all round bikes you can buy right now.
It's up in the top echelons for it's aero performance, but can still be built to 6.8kgs without difficulty. Mine weighs 6.3kg.
And yes, the maths says that weight is 'immaterial' in all but the steepest climbs, but you just cannot quantify how a light bike feels, reacts and handles. That is very important to me.
Also, that swiss side link trashing tubulars is a bit binary. Some tubs are better than some clinchers or vice versa. It's not just 'clinchers roll better than tubs'.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

Why do you assume the Ostro is aero? Have there been any 3rd party tests?

Edit: Also, the difference between heavy and light framesets isn't that huge. 800g is very light (Ostro). 1000g is very heavy (SystemSix). Something like a Venge is somewhere between. If your build is 6.3kg then using the same components on a "heavy" bike would maybe be 6.6kg. I feel like people say 8kg bikes are that heavy because of the frame, when in reality it's mostly due to component choices (barring proprietary bars like Cervelo and Simplon).

Andrew69
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am
Location: ɹǝpunuʍop

by Andrew69

The more I see of the bike, the more I like it.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

BigBoyND wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 pm
Why do you assume the Ostro is aero? Have there been any 3rd party tests?

Edit: Also, the difference between heavy and light framesets isn't that huge. 800g is very light (Ostro). 1000g is very heavy (SystemSix). Something like a Venge is somewhere between. If your build is 6.3kg then using the same components on a "heavy" bike would maybe be 6.6kg. I feel like people say 8kg bikes are that heavy because of the frame, when in reality it's mostly due to component choices (barring proprietary bars like Cervelo and Simplon).
These propiatry aero stems, bars and seatposts will often weigh a fair bit more than more standard items and you're locked into these parts.

Example - 100mm Hollowgram KNOT Stem - 229g, 100mm Kalloy Uno Stem - 103g.

User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

BigBoyND wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 pm
Why do you assume the Ostro is aero?
Because it uses many of the same design cues as the most aero bikes, and in some areas, improves on them.
eg. dropped seat stays, deep thin fork, Kammtail shaped downtube and seat tube, aero seatpost and a very smooth aero bar/stem combo.

I also feel that the widely spaced fork leg and the very smooth transition area around the fork/headtube can only help.

I have no hard data, but it certainly feels a good bit quicker than my SL6 Sworks just about everywhere.

BigBoyND
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

CampagYOLO wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:42 am
BigBoyND wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:33 pm
Why do you assume the Ostro is aero? Have there been any 3rd party tests?

Edit: Also, the difference between heavy and light framesets isn't that huge. 800g is very light (Ostro). 1000g is very heavy (SystemSix). Something like a Venge is somewhere between. If your build is 6.3kg then using the same components on a "heavy" bike would maybe be 6.6kg. I feel like people say 8kg bikes are that heavy because of the frame, when in reality it's mostly due to component choices (barring proprietary bars like Cervelo and Simplon).
These propiatry aero stems, bars and seatposts will often weigh a fair bit more than more standard items and you're locked into these parts.

Example - 100mm Hollowgram KNOT Stem - 229g, 100mm Kalloy Uno Stem - 103g.
KNOT stem is a bad example since you aren't locked into that part. Specialized and Bontrager use the same cable routing. Put a RSL VR-C bar on a Cannondale and it's lighter than any Kalloy + aero bar combo.

Same holds true for more "proprietary" bars, aside from Simplon/S5 type setups, which are in the minority. For 95% of aero bikes, you have light options.

Aero seatposts are generally not much heavier, either.

As I said, the frame weight difference is 200g at best. But I added another 100g for fork and seatpost being a little heavier for the reasons you mentioned. Hence my comment: "If your build is 6.3kg then using the same components on a "heavy" bike would maybe be 6.6kg."

There is simply not a 1kg difference in frames alone between heavy aero bikes and lightweight climbers. So saying "my bike is 6.3kg but this bike is 8kg" while ignoring that 80% of that weight is from components is not comparing apples to apples.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

mgrl wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:49 am
It's a nice analysis but it doesn't really reflect real race conditions
What do you mean by "real race conditions"?
Here's a "real race condition" - you're not a pro rider. If you were, you'd be riding whatever the team provided and you'd be happy to do it. And 9 out of 10 times you'd be lucky to stay with the bunch. But you're not.
Any other "real race conditions" you can apply their scenario 1 or 2 which are clearly your most realistic options. Or you can apply faith and belief but then stop pretending you care about the actual numbers.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

cyclespeed wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:51 am
I have no hard data, but it certainly feels a good bit quicker than my SL6 Sworks just about everywhere.
Humans are terrible with "feelings". Of you're into coffee, look no further than tamping an espresso puck for proof of this.

The previous Canyon Speedmax looked aero everywhere but was actually mediocre. We always need proof.

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 6283
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

otnemem wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:31 am
cyclespeed wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:51 am
I have no hard data, but it certainly feels a good bit quicker than my SL6 Sworks just about everywhere.
Humans are terrible with "feelings". Of you're into coffee, look no further than tamping an espresso puck for proof of this.

The previous Canyon Speedmax looked aero everywhere but was actually mediocre. We always need proof.
And how many % depends on the rider itself?
I'd love to like aero-stuff, but sadly too much is still up to my legs and to maintain aero position.
I still believe many (perhaps not here, but anyway) buy into this because in our minds, we dream of just taking off like a rocket into the sunset.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

otnemem
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

They do "all things being equal" since introducing confounders would lead to the impossibility of drawing any conclusions. It's the only way to inform and the only way for us to have information. What you ask for is impossible and largely irrelevant.
You can have your preference and your preference might be the lightest bike possible, but anyone still denying that aero > weight at this point is like an antivaxxer or a flat-earther.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
cyclespeed
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:45 am

by cyclespeed

otnemem wrote:
Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:31 am
cyclespeed wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:51 am
I have no hard data, but it certainly feels a good bit quicker than my SL6 Sworks just about everywhere.
Humans are terrible with "feelings". Of you're into coffee, look no further than tamping an espresso puck for proof of this.

The previous Canyon Speedmax looked aero everywhere but was actually mediocre. We always need proof.
I've been riding bikes ALOT for 40 years, so I'm pretty sure I can spot and feel important differences when they are there. There are subtle handling differences between the SL6 and the Ostro too, and I still (just) prefer the SL6 in that respect.

I would 'guesstimate' the difference between the 2 bikes at 40km/h to be about 10 watts. My position is as identical as I could make it.

Post Reply