Tubeless alternative to Turbo Cotton

[tjvirden]

I'm curious as to how you have quantified the diiferences in grip between tires?

Soon there'll be some data.
Quoted Jarno from BRR disqus comment on Pirelli's test below. Apperantly, they are testing tire grip. Data will be available maybe next month. :

Didn't test the Wolfpack yet. Power Road does very well. Vittoria Corsa and Corsa Control as well but they do a bit worse on center grip but better on edge grip (4c compound really seems to work).

So, it seems Vittoria Corsa use mid-level grip compound on the center, but high grip compound on the side.

Thanks; I hadn't spotted the upcoming BRR testing. I'm glad Jarno's the one to start doing this - I find his approach to testing thorough, so they'll be useful info out of it.

The multi-compound tread is as old as......I've used all sorts over the years, from Schwalbe, Michelin and Vredestein. In my experience, Michelin are the only ones to get it about right, and it took them many attempts. The main problem with the "high grip compound on the side" idea is that you have to take into account off-camber cornering/turning. Because of the way maximum lean angle relative to the surface varies according to the absolute angle of the surface, the higher-grip part of the tread needs to extend much further up to the centre [crown] of the tire than appears to be the case based on a surface that's always perpendicular to gravity.

In the end, there's not really much benefit in reduced rolling resistance, but you have less traction. I suspect that Conti have never offered that type of mult-compound tread because it's just not worth it. In any case they have Black Chili which is still outstanding, so they don't really need to bother.

I've been riding Turbo Cottons for about 6 month now........
..............
Anything that would be as supple and would feel as good as the Turbo Cotton, with a similar RR, but tubeless?

OP, you're going to have to compromise somewhere! Something from Challenge will come closest I think, but I don't have enough experience to recommend a specific tire........

[Yoln]

Thank you all!

About measuring suppleness, it's pretty obvious to me, having for example my girlfriend riding gp5k tl, I can tell a massive difference versus the spesh cotton when swapping wheels, night and day at 85psi, anybody would feel it.

That said, there is interesting thought in this thread:

- I lack rolling-resistance information on Challenge Strada Pro HTLR : Anybody has that?
- I have the Spesh cotton rapidair on the other bike, not as good ride feel as the cottons, but that might be the alternative
- Other solution is just to suck it up on ride feel, and live with the fast GP5K TL

overall as tjvirden said, I have to compromise, and if I have to give up on something, let it be suppleness, this is my race wheelset afterall and I am not ready to give up any speed !

[Mr.Gib]

If it is for racing then give Corsa Speed TLR a go. I find the performance excellent by any metric including ride quality. And while durability is hardly relevant, unless you are racing on a really bad surface or roads covered with debris, you won't have an issue with punctures.

[justonwo]

I have yet to find a tire that meets your criteria. I've ridden the GP5000, Schwalbe Pro One, and RapidAir. None of them are as supple as the Turbo Cotton.

The only tubeless tire I've ridden with that supple ride quality is the Schwalbe Pro One TT, but that tire is paper thin.

[Yoln]

If it is for racing then give Corsa Speed TLR a go. I find the performance excellent by any metric including ride quality. And while durability is hardly relevant, unless you are racing on a really bad surface or roads covered with debris, you won't have an issue with punctures.

I love them, they are actually my favorite tyres, but not reliable enough here in NY state to use them as my race tyres unfortunately

I have yet to find a tire that meets your criteria. I've ridden the GP5000, Schwalbe Pro One, and RapidAir. None of them are as supple as the Turbo Cotton.

The only tubeless tire I've ridden with that supple ride quality is the Schwalbe Pro One TT, but that tire is paper thin.

agreed, Corsa speed should be also added to the super-supple super-thin list if you ask me

[Hexsense]

I suspect that Conti have never offered that type of mult-compound tread because it's just not worth it. In any case they have Black Chili which is still outstanding, so they don't really need to bother.

Black Chili is not a single compound. Rather, it's a name given to multiple different compounds.
Some of them are blazing fast, with a bit compromised grip (as used in GP5000, Continental Terra Speed, Continental Race King). Some of them are grippier but noticeably slower (Continental GP 4Seasons, Continental Terra Trail, Continental Cross King). I don't know what they use for what tire in their tubular arsenal but I heard GP5000 compound is used on TT tubular while the regular Continental Pro Ltd tubular is grippier.

Example on MTB tires:
Continental Race King Protection has 20.2 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
Continental Cross King Protection has 29.0 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
That's almost 50% slower, despite both are near identical in size and both are Black Chili. Tread pattern and +20% weight increase can't make this big disparity. Users also reported the Cross King to simply grip better in wet, at the cost of the speed.

Examples on gravel tires:
Terra Trail 40c has 31.0 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
Terra Speed 40c has 25.6 watts resistance at low tire pressure. Terra Speed is even heavier than Terra Trail... But it roll faster thanks to faster compound despite both of them called Black Chili.

Since Continental Call all their best compounds Black Chili. When they release a new tire, we don't know for sure which varient it is. Would it be super grippy or fast. If the tire test slow, is it because it use grippier compound or it already use fast compound but still perform dissappointing? IMO, it'd be better if Continental differentiate their rubber compounds.

[tjvirden]

I suspect that Conti have never offered that type of mult-compound tread because it's just not worth it. In any case they have Black Chili which is still outstanding, so they don't really need to bother.

Black Chili is not a single compound. Rather, it's a name given to multiple different compounds.
Some of them are blazing fast, with a bit compromised grip (as used in GP5000, Continental Terra Speed, Continental Race King). Some of them are grippier but noticeably slower (Continental GP 4Seasons, Continental Terra Trail, Continental Cross King). I don't know what they use for what tire in their tubular arsenal but I heard GP5000 compound is used on TT tubular while the regular Continental Pro Ltd tubular is grippier.

Example on MTB tires:
Continental Race King Protection has 20.2 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
Continental Cross King Protection has 29.0 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
That's almost 50% slower, despite both are near identical in size and both are Black Chili. Tread pattern and +20% weight increase can't make this big disparity. Users also reported the Cross King to simply grip better in wet, at the cost of the speed.

Examples on gravel tires:
Terra Trail 40c has 31.0 watts resistance at low tire pressure.
Terra Speed 40c has 25.6 watts resistance at low tire pressure. Terra Speed is even heavier than Terra Trail... But it roll faster thanks to faster compound despite both of them called Black Chili.

Since Continental Call all their best compounds Black Chili. When they release a new tire, we don't know for sure which varient it is. Would it be super grippy or fast. If the tire test slow, is it because it use grippier compound or it already use fast compound but still perform dissappointing? IMO, it'd be better if Continental differentiate their rubber compounds.

Indeed; however, there's no indication that they've ever made a multi-compound tread; I'm 99% sure they haven't......

[TobinHatesYou]

I anecdotally had better experiences with Corsa Speeds than Veloflex Corsa Races. Corsa Speeds proved reasonably puncture resistant because the sidewalls have a sprayed on rubber coating. Veloflex sidewall threads get cut easily AND the tires really aren’t supple until you go lower than 80psi.

Schwalbe Pro Ones are pretty darn supple.

[Marin]

I lack rolling-resistance information on Challenge Strada Pro HTLR : Anybody has that?

The Strada Bianca HTLR is the fastest gravel tire on bicyclerollingresistance while still offering great puncture protection, so the tech seems to be good.

[Yoln]

I lack rolling-resistance information on Challenge Strada Pro HTLR : Anybody has that?

The Strada Bianca HTLR is the fastest gravel tire on bicyclerollingresistance while still offering great puncture protection, so the tech seems to be good.

Agreed, looking forward to seeing BRR testing the Strada Pro !

[TobinHatesYou]

Agreed, looking forward to seeing BRR testing the Strada Pro !

If you have a BRR Pro account, I added Strada Pro to the vote process. Vote for it. I suspect the rubber compound Challenge is using isn’t as good as the big brands, and at smaller sizes, the casing contributes less to overall rolling efficiency.

[Yoln]

Agreed, looking forward to seeing BRR testing the Strada Pro !

If you have a BRR Pro account, I added Strada Pro to the vote process. Vote for it. I suspect the rubber compound Challenge is using isn’t as good as the big brands, and at smaller sizes, the casing contributes less to overall rolling efficiency.

Just did. Didn't look like it's going to be selected this month though!

On the meantime I have some GP5K TL coming in the mail, that'll de the trick until I find something more exciting to try!

[ryanw]

So you bought a tyre which is the polar opposite of the Turbo Cotton?...

[Yoln]

So you bought a tyre which is the polar opposite of the Turbo Cotton?...

As already mentioned, I wanted to improve the puncture protection of the Cotton, but this is going to be used as a race tyre, so I didn't want to give up any speed. So I gave up on comfort/suppleness

[Renne]

Veloflex Corsa Evo TLR
Schwalbe Pro One TT TLE
Vittoria Corsa Speed G+ 2.0 TLR
These are the ones I have experience with. The Vittoria's don't last very long, but longer than the Schwalbe's...
I also ride the Continental GP5000 TLR but I would not call those very supple.