Wilier Filante vs Pinarello Dogma F

[survivor]

I pretty much narrowed down the search for my next bike to the Wilier Filante or the Pinarello Dogma F. I would like to get some opinion here on which one would you go for and why. I do understand that there are many bikes out there that are perhaps better performance or better value but I would really appreciate the discussion to be limited to these two bikes.

Color choice:
Wilier Filanete: Velvet Red or Grey Iride Green
Pinarello Dogma F: Plutonium Flash or Black On Black

Things that draw me to Wilier Filante

• Lightweight aero

• Fantastic paint job

• Clean lines

• Uniqueness

• Faster availability (could get my hand on one in August)

Things that push me from Wilier Filante

• Not sure about Wilier Accufit fitting system

• No inventory on Filante combo bar in shorter length (88mm, 101mm)

Things that draw me to Pinarello Dogma F

• Familiarity (currently on a Dogma F8)

• Potentially lighter than Filante?

• Potentially more aero and stiffer than Filante?

• Unique styling

Things that push me from Pinarello Dogma F

• Unsure about the paint job

• Availability is quote in December 2021/January 2022

• Less unique (seen more Pinarello than Wilier around)

[wheelsONfire]

Which bike do you really want the most? Does logic say one thing and heart another or?

Your stem option for the Wilier is really short. How many spacers would you use for your size?
Personally i would sway to a bike when frame is what i need talking stack and reach.
That is a frame that is more fitting. Or say as close as possible to custom.

[survivor]

Which bike do you really want the most? Does logic say one thing and heart another or?

Your stem option for the Wilier is really short. How many spacers would you use for your size?
Personally i would sway to a bike when frame is what i need talking stack and reach.
That is a frame that is more fitting. Or say as close as possible to custom.

Logic says the Wilier Filante because is is cheaper and I could get it within weeks. Heart says Pinarello Dogma F as Pinarello always have a mystic attraction to them, but it is more expensive and could be months before I can get my hand on one.

I'm on a 100mm/40cm Black Inc integrated bar on my current Pinarello Dogma F8 with 30mm spacers (frame top to bottom of stem). The Black Inc integrated bar has a 80mm bar reach. I'm perfectly comfortable when I'm riding on the bar top. I have always felt a little bit stretched when I'm riding on the hood. My hand would naturally placed ~10mm back from where the hood is when I'm riding on the hood. Thus for the new bike, if possible, I would like to bring the hood reach back by ~10mm while maintaining the bar X, Y location so that the riding on the bar top won't get impacted. The option is to look for a bar that has a shorter bar reach, which is what the Filante integrated bar offers with its short bar reach.

I will need to be on the 88mm/40cm integrated bar on the Wilier Filante. The reach of that bar is 68mm. I think I can make above happen with either the size S or M Filante. I would shorten the overall reach by ~14mm with a size S frame paired with a 35mm spacers or ~6mm with a size M frame paired with a 20mm spacers.

[hannawald]

I also very often look at opportunities how to shorten the reach as I have shorter hands than average for my height. It is sometimes hard to asses bar reach because it is the distance to the furthest point of the bars but the levers are usually placed higher, for example Deda bars have about 75mm reach but some bars with 80mm reach can place levers closer to the rider. So you should check twice:)

[survivor]

I also very often look at opportunities how to shorten the reach as I have shorter hands than average for my height. It is sometimes hard to asses bar reach because it is the distance to the furthest point of the bars but the levers are usually placed higher, for example Deda bars have about 75mm reach but some bars with 80mm reach can place levers closer to the rider. So you should check twice:)

I see. Thanks for the heads up! I assumed bar manufacturer measure the bar reach the same (i.e. to the furthest point of the bar)? If this assumption is true, and assuming the levers are placed at the same location then the shorter reach bar should bring the levers closer to the rider no?

[hannawald]

I also very often look at opportunities how to shorten the reach as I have shorter hands than average for my height. It is sometimes hard to asses bar reach because it is the distance to the furthest point of the bars but the levers are usually placed higher, for example Deda bars have about 75mm reach but some bars with 80mm reach can place levers closer to the rider. So you should check twice:)

I see. Thanks for the heads up! I assumed bar manufacturer measure the bar reach the same (i.e. to the furthest point of the bar)? If this assumption is true, and assuming the levers are placed at the same location then the shorter reach bar should bring the levers closer to the rider no?

Bars can have different shape so not neccessarily..and if you look at Deda bars for example, they don't allow you to put the levers very high..the clamping zone finishes earlier than with some other bars. Also depends on the shape of the bars behind the clamping zone because it affects how will be the angle of the levers..

[survivor]

Bars can have different shape so not neccessarily..and if you look at Deda bars for example, they don't allow you to put the levers very high..the clamping zone finishes earlier than with some other bars. Also depends on the shape of the bars behind the clamping zone because it affects how will be the angle of the levers..

Many thanks for the explanations! Manage to find one youtube video showing the Filante build. At video minute 1:53 shows the clamping zone of the bar which finishes quite high up, almost to the bar top. I should be able to mount the levers at the same location if not higher as what I've done currently on my Black Inc bar.

[hannawald]

Perfect:)
I know it's hard to asses online..I just wanted to mention that if you count every mm..with my previous bike I have found proper side pictures of two different handlebars and put them side by side in the windows painting:)
With my new bike my lbs was kind enough to mount 3 different bars before I took the decision. I was able to mount levers closer to me with FSA K Force with 80mm reach than with Deda Superzero with 75mm reach. And I was not at the end of the clamping zone with K Force because the angle of levers started to be a bit weird..

[hannawald]

Regarding Dogma vs Filante it depends what type of person you are:) My friend is more a rational type comparing specs vs money. He can appreciate technical features and quality of manufacturing..he has bikes for couple of years and rides every day..

I am more an emotional type, I have my bike in my bedroom.. I am also impatitent but I know that if I buy Filante now I would look at Dogma in couple of months anyway and loose a lot of money selling Filante..despite I know that both bikes are great and the change will not make mit faster and Filante is a bike 99,99 percent of cyclists would love to ride..but if my heart beats for Dogma..so it is up to you what type of person you are and if you fall in love with Filante..if something in you say buy Dogma and you are emotional type then you should probably follow that:) because in couple of months you will look at new Dogmas here and doubts in you will grow..if you are more rational type who buys Filante and in half a year can say to himself - nice Dogmas, but I have a nice superbike with the same quality cheaper and it rides beautifully - then go Filante:)

[Hanibal74]

Hey mate. I was in the same position. My LBS carries both brands. They had a velvet red filante on display and that colour is. It s a beautiful frame to be sure but their is something about the F12 that gets my blood going.

So I put an order in on a f12 with a custom paint job. Have been waiting for about 2 months before the Dogma F was released so I canned my F12 order and re-ordered the Dogma F frame in Plutonium. It won’t be here until Feb but that’s ok. I have my Oltre xr2 to keep my company until then.

Both bike are amazing I don’t think you could go wrong with either. Just choose which bike you desire the most.


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[wheelsONfire]

I agree with some of the above guys! Buy that frameset which you like the most. However, Filante is probably even lower in stack than that of Dogma. 30mm of spacers on Dogma, that is like max you should even have. Filante is even worse!
IMO, both these framesets are to long and too low for you.
Super short stem + so many spacers, tells you lean towards a way less aggressive frame.

Counterweight some info + what i would go for, i'd say Dogma Plutonium.

[nulldreiundreissig]

I agree with some of the above guys! Buy that frameset which you like the most. However, Filante is probably even lower in stack than that of Dogma. 30mm of spacers on Dogma, that is like max you should even have. Filante is even worse!
IMO, both these framesets are to long and too low for you.
Super short stem + so many spacers, tells you lean towards a way less aggressive frame.

Counterweight some info + what i would go for, i'd say Dogma Plutonium.

I agree, you should get the frame that gets you more excited. If the pinarello does so, it is worth the wait. AFAIK Pinarello also offers more sizes for the cockpit, maybe even a two-piece option.


ISince you're position on the F8 seems to work for you. I'd suggest to size down and have a few spacers rather than to have a super short stem and short reach bars. Which size, which stem lenth, which bars and how many spacers are you running with the current bike?

[survivor]

I agree, you should get the frame that gets you more excited. If the pinarello does so, it is worth the wait. AFAIK Pinarello also offers more sizes for the cockpit, maybe even a two-piece option.


ISince you're position on the F8 seems to work for you. I'd suggest to size down and have a few spacers rather than to have a super short stem and short reach bars. Which size, which stem lenth, which bars and how many spacers are you running with the current bike?

I'm on F8 size 470 with 100mm/40cm Black Inc integrated bar/stem. I'm running 30mm spacers from frame top to bottom of stem. If I did the calculation right, I should be able to achieve what I need with 88mm/40cm Filante integrated bar with a M size Filante frame with 20mm spacers. I'll need to run the Pinarello Dogma F with a size 50, most probably the same 30mm spacers with a 100mm/42cm Talon bar. That would replicate the exact fit on my current F8. To bring in the lever reach I would need to go for 90mm/42cm Talon bar, but that probably would bring the distance to bar top too close for me.

[sgergole]

At those price points, all of these are super-bikes. Just choose the one you like more from the aesthetics point of view.

[hannawald]

I agree, you should get the frame that gets you more excited. If the pinarello does so, it is worth the wait. AFAIK Pinarello also offers more sizes for the cockpit, maybe even a two-piece option.


ISince you're position on the F8 seems to work for you. I'd suggest to size down and have a few spacers rather than to have a super short stem and short reach bars. Which size, which stem lenth, which bars and how many spacers are you running with the current bike?

I'm on F8 size 470 with 100mm/40cm Black Inc integrated bar/stem. I'm running 30mm spacers from frame top to bottom of stem. If I did the calculation right, I should be able to achieve what I need with 88mm/40cm Filante integrated bar with a M size Filante frame with 20mm spacers. I'll need to run the Pinarello Dogma F with a size 50, most probably the same 30mm spacers with a 100mm/42cm Talon bar. That would replicate the exact fit on my current F8. To bring in the lever reach I would need to go for 90mm/42cm Talon bar, but that probably would bring the distance to bar top too close for me.

I didn't look at cockpit details etc. but based on frame sizes Filante M seems too big for you..
Your Pinarello is 527mm top tube while S size Filante is 530mm and M size 543! S size Filante is only 4mm lowe r on stack (521 vs 525).

If you have 3cm of spacers incl. headset cover now on Dogma, it should be ok with S size Filante..you will have headset cover, which will be about 1cm and 25mm of spacers, maybe 30mm of spacers as the bars looks to be an agressive angle on the picture. You see this amount of spacers on review bikes.

Btw just a reminder - you can't compare pure reach numbers from the table as reach is measured at a certain stack height..and due to the front of the bike being angled reach shortens by about 3mm per 1cm of the higher stack..so at a given height (on a smaller sized bike achieved by more spacers under the stem) the difference in reach will be bigger then what you simply see in the geometry chart table.

Dogma seems a bit less aggresive, that's another point for it:)