Cervelo R5 Frame Alignment Issue?

[zzzzz8]

Jesus. I'm going to say it. People on this forum are trying to help you and you are just being.....so aggressive. Perhaps you should just wind your neck in and accept the fact that you bought the wrong tyres. Why don't you do your own research in the future?!

[Fastfwd]

Well, apparently it doesn't accommodate 25mm tires very well with the factory wheels now does it?

Sure it does. The ones they specced didn't rub, did they?

Do you troll here often? Is that your primary goal? You really aren't providing any helpful information to this topic. Are you? Don't expect me to respond to you again and if you insist I will have to see if I can't just block you on here.

I don't know if the stock tires would have ever rubbed because they were trash and I took them off as soon as I figured out how lame they were. Those stock tires cost me 2 flats in one day at an event that I busted my ass to train for (2 days of 100 miles each). Then I had to ride the rest of the first day of that 100 mile event on a tire that was hand pumped to who knows what tire pressure. That might have left them running more than a half millimeter wider from under inflation than a properly gauged inflated tire.

Should I have just waited for the SAG vehicle to take me back to the start line and quit? Oh, I can’t be sure that I’ve inflated my trashy stock tires up to pressure to be certain that they aren’t violating the .5mm of clearance the factory allowed between them and the chainstays. I’ll need to throw in the towel and get a ride.

According to the website cited here by another user - the shitty 'stock' tires measure to be approximately 1mm difference from what were one of the most popular performance tires of the day in the same size. If you think that HALF OF A MILLIMETER clearance was sufficient that might be your opinion, but I would disagree. Why don't you move on with your life? Why does this seem so personal for you?

The ‘ISO Standard’ that was supposedly released in 2016

What year bike is it again?

It's a 2015. My interpretation is that the premise of this 2016 ISO Standard would be that bike manufactures were doing a shitty job of providing customers with sufficient tire clearance. An ‘ISO Standard’ would by my estimation be something that a manufacturer would be encouraged to adhere to. Not particularly a technical specification intended for the end consumers who couldn’t be expected to attempt to measure 4mm of clearance between the frame and wheel/tire.
This was leaving customers like myself to find out that they might experience a frame failure if they didn’t catch the situation that I have caught. A failure for something that the vast majority of people would never have even believed possible.

My guess is that maybe Cervelo doesn’t cite previous year model bikes on that webpage because they really don’t want to admit just how little clearance there was with the older models and the tires that they fitted on them.

I would credit them for posting some kind of statement on their website, but I’m not sure that was enough to inform owners of their bikes that there was such insufficient clearance with many of their bikes.

I would also point out that even though I’m a little older now and my eyesight maybe isn’t as sharp as it once was I’m going to guess that most people can’t eyeball the difference of .5mm of clearance. If one tire is claimed to pass the manufacturer’s specification to provide adequate clearance – who is going to see a .5mm less difference?

I actually think the HED wheels are good enough too for that matter. Outside of the issue with the width contributing to this problem. I gave pretty careful consideration to buying some aftermarket carbon wheels and I just couldn’t justify it for me personally. Thank God I didn’t because I’m not sure I would have ever dreamed that the inner rim width being any wider might have caused me even more of a problem and I would be responsible for that too.

I love my R5 too additionally. I have taken great care to attempt to keep it in pristine condition. That's why this upsets me. I felt like I did everythign I could to take care of it and now this. Sure, I will swap the tires out now, but that's not going to fix the damage done.

[tomato]

Jesus. I'm going to say it. People on this forum are trying to help you and you are just being.....so aggressive. Perhaps you should just wind your neck in and accept the fact that you bought the wrong tyres. Why don't you do your own research in the future?!

+1

[Fastfwd]

Jesus. I'm going to say it. People on this forum are trying to help you and you are just being.....so aggressive. Perhaps you should just wind your neck in and accept the fact that you bought the wrong tyres. Why don't you do your own research in the future?!

+1

Neither of those comments is 'helping.'

[we51]

@Fastfwd - Possibly helpful data: I just installed a 25mm GP5K on an 18mm internal width rim (close to your HEDs), and it measures to 25.5mm at 100psi. I previouly has 23mm GP4K-S (not SII) on the same wheel, and it measured to 25mm at 100psi. I think that I have some 25mm GP4Ks around somewhere, but will have to search to find one. I will report back if successful.

Nevertheless, a 23mm GP4K and 25mm GP5K measure close to the same (0.5mm different) on the same wheel. That indicates to me that 25mm GP5Ks should be significantly smaller than 25mm GP4K-SIIs on your wheels - likely 2mm smaller which would give you an additional 1mm per side. That does not get you to the ISO 4mm gap per side, but should move you from rubbing to not rubbing which seems to be the important goal.

Regarding the frame rub that you have already incurred, take it to your bike shop and have it inspected if you feel at all uncomfortable. From the photos that you have posted, I'd say it looks like clear coat scuffing at worst. An automotive touch-up paint pen will likely clear that right up. I can appreciate your attention to the condition of your expensive and loved bike, but blemishes happen. I would not put any worry into impact to potential resale - I don't think anyone here would hesitate to purchase a second hand bike soley because of some minimal past tire rub. Put on some tires that fit better, and since you love it - ride it!

Actual installed cycling tire size vs. nominal sizing has been and remains a mess. Neither Cervelo or Continental created that. I am not a tubeless rider, but it seems like it has actually gotten worse for those poor souls adding a element of having to determine which tires are compatible with which wheels before even being able to judge whether a given combination will work with a specific bike. There is always an element of experimentation in it, and a (good) local bike shop can help to guide you through that if you are not interested in doing it yourself.

[F10]

Gotta be honest, this is not what I expected when i clicked this thread.

[CarboTi]

First time posting on this forum; maybe I can provide some helpful input. I have a 2015 Cervelo R3 frame which to my knowledge is identical to the R5 (but with a different carbon layup) including same size/shape of frame components (chainstays, seat stays, etc.). This is a key assumption for the following to be of any use. If it helps, I can pull the rear wheel and take a measurement of the clearance between the chainstays. Not sure it makes a difference but frame size is 54.

My R3 came with 23mm tires on Fulcrum Racing 5.5 aluminum rims which I upgraded to Campy Bora One carbon rims and 25mm Conti 4000sII tires. Based on eyeballing alone, there seems to be at least 3mm clearance between the tire and the chainstays (with tire pressure at 100 psi).

I've included some photos (sorry for the dirty bike --- just got back from a ride). The Bora One rims may be wider/narrower than the Ardennes which may change the "ballooning" but, at least on my frame, I can't imagine this would be enough of a difference to cause interference. For reference, I've included a shot showing clearance at the seat stays.

Hope this helps.

[jch3n]

Seems like OP is just trying to get us all to agree with them that they were somehow misled by Cervelo re tire clearance. Sorry, not happening.

TL;DR: 25mm tires of various makes/models will fit differently given the same wheels, "standards" notwithstanding. This is still true of any wheel/tire combo, of any size, on any bike.

[Fastfwd]

Seems like OP is just trying to get us all to agree with them that they were somehow misled by Cervelo re tire clearance. Sorry, not happening.

TL;DR: 25mm tires of various makes/models will fit differently given the same wheels, "standards" notwithstanding. This is still true of any wheel/tire combo, of any size, on any bike.

https://www.cervelo.com/en/further-clar ... -clearance

"Further compounding this was the 2016 release of new ISO standards for bicycle safety, which specify legal minimum clearances between the tire and frame."

https://www.iso.org/standards.html

"ISO standards are internationally agreed by experts

Think of them as a formula that describes the best way of doing something.

It could be about making a product, managing a process, delivering a service or supplying materials – standards cover a huge range of activities.

Standards are the distilled wisdom of people with expertise in their subject matter and who know the needs of the organizations they represent – people such as manufacturers, sellers, buyers, customers, trade associations, users or regulators."

I'm not sure how much of a 'Law' could be enforced for such an issue, but apparently outside of whatever bunch of fan boy loons that participate on the 'Weight Weenies' cycling forum there were agreed upon standards set that mandated 4mm of clearance on each side of a tire/wheel going forward from 2016? It must have become such an issue that there had to be an industry standard set.

If anyone here believes that less than .5mm difference in tire clearance on each side of a tire for a consumer level bicyle is an acceptable limit of tolerance for fitting new tires to any bike you must be high on something. You are not thinking rationally imo.

I'm not going to argue with any of you any further on it. I'm sure there have to be discussions about the weight savings of titanium bolts and nuts that deserve your full attention. Or maybe that is what this is really about? Have you exhausted the debates over how to save that last gram already? Please direct your energy toward a better cause than trying to convince me that I'm wrong about this. It won't happen.

[jch3n]

You're picking a bone with the wrong crowd. We're just telling you the reality. Go take it up with wheel & tire manufacturers.

[Fastfwd]

You're picking a bone with the wrong crowd. We're just telling you the reality. Go take it up with wheel & tire manufacturers.

The 'Reality' is that what (some of) the 'Weight Weenies' believe is a solid argument is based on the difference in clearance between two sets of tires from the same manufacturer both sold as 25mm width tires that have an actual measured width difference that amounts to LESS THAN HALF THE THICKNESS OF A U.S. DIME of clearance on each side of the tire.

That is such a ridiculously minute difference in ‘Reality’ that I’m actually pretty pleased to have become inflamed enough by this discussion forum to have explored it until I grasped just what the difference actually is.

A U.S. Dime is 1.35mm thick:

I have been judged here for not using enough ‘common sense’ to have eyeballed there being LESS THAN HALF THE THICKNESS OF A US DIME less clearance with the tires I put on my bike. Either you are nuts to believe that is a valid criticism or you just don’t realize what exactly you are criticizing.

I do appreciate those who have attempted to contribute helpful information. I am much more educated on this topic than I was before coming here. I just don’t appreciate having anyone inflame me further while I am already pretty upset over this.

You aren’t going to convince me that I’m wrong in this. Not even if you come back and point out that the wheel is out of ‘dish’ – the clearance is so ridiculously tiny it would only take an equal amount of the dish being out for it to rub too. The combination of those things came together in a very unfortunate manner. I’m glad that I caught it before it hopefully did too much damage.

Thank you who have contributed.

[Tifosiphil]

The good thing is that you have caught it and can now ensure it doesn't happen again.

It happens a lot, on our roads they cover them in chippings so in the warm weather we're having currently they stick to your tyres and scratch the clear coating on your frame all the time. I know you don't believe this issue is your fault and I understand that but tyre rub is generally a part of the game, if not down to just clearance but I have seen it on hundreds of bikes from frame flex, wheel flex or even someone hitting a pothole mid-ride buckling a wheel and not realising this until they get home.

I would stick some clear coat on there and go down a tyre size, if you have space maybe put some clear 3M tape in there to stop it happening again

[ghostinthemachine]

https://www.iso.org/standards.html"ISO standards are internationally agreed by experts

Think of them as a formula that describes the best way of doing something.

It could be about making a product, managing a process, delivering a service or supplying materials – standards cover a huge range of activities.

Standards are the distilled wisdom of people with expertise in their subject matter and who know the needs of the organizations they represent – people such as manufacturers, sellers, buyers, customers, trade associations, users or regulators."

If nothing else good comes out of this thread, I at least got a laugh out of the ISO's opinion of themselves.

It's worth reading up on the saga of the ETRTO standard creation. As far as I know, that's been an open "discussion" for the last 10-15 years.

[warthog101]

I gave up worrying about stone chips and rub marks on my S5 years ago. It's had more hits the the Beatles now
The back of the seat tube in particular is rubbed and gouged to the sh ithouse where various bit of debris have been carried up by the tyre a crunched through the small gap.
Meh, it still rides fine

[Nezz0r]

FWIW. On 17mm internal Campy Zonda rims:
23mm GP4000sII (front) 24.6mm
25mm GP4000sII (rear) 26.6mm

Does not add anything in terms of whether the frame is ok/nok for 25mm tires in the general sense.

Seems like spacing is rather tight for the frame and 25mm tires (with this rim combo).