28's or 25's for racing

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Luften
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

Thanks for the responses. I'm continuing to improve on the corners, getting good enough to keep up and not lose position now which is nice. On my clinchers, I'm quite happy with the Corsa 2.0 in 25mm (which inflate to 27.5mm) so I'm going to stay with those instead of the Veloflex clinchers from now on. I still have a set of the GP5000s in 28mm size which I haven't tried yet, so I might give them a go over the winter seeing as the Corsas are apparently on the fragile side.

What tires would people recommend for tubulars? Between the three brands discussed, the weights and sizes seem pretty similar:
- Veloflex ProTour Race 25mm 285g
- Vittoria Corsa 25mm 290g
- Conti Competition 25mm - their website says 245g but I don't think that's right... I've seen 280-285g listed elsewhere
- Conti Competition Pro-LTD 25mm... if I can find them

Anyone have actual widths of the tubulars inflated in real life? Any recommendations for one tire over the other, focusing on cornering grip first, then rr second? Do the Corsas still come out on top for the tubulars?

I've also been racing on my Veloflex tubs recently which I'm finding better for grip than the Veloflex clinchers (although I still think the wider Corsa clinchers are even grippier). I can run the tubs at lower pressures without them feeling "soggy" as well. I was generally running my Veloflex clinchers at around 85-90psi (I'm 80kg) with anything below that feeling a bit flat, whereas I've found running the tubs at 80psi is just fine. Haven't tried 75psi yet but thinking to give that a run next.

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bilwit
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by bilwit

Luften wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:06 pm
Thanks for the responses. I'm continuing to improve on the corners, getting good enough to keep up and not lose position now which is nice. On my clinchers, I'm quite happy with the Corsa 2.0 in 25mm (which inflate to 27.5mm) so I'm going to stay with those instead of the Veloflex clinchers from now on. I still have a set of the GP5000s in 28mm size which I haven't tried yet, so I might give them a go over the winter seeing as the Corsas are apparently on the fragile side.

What tires would people recommend for tubulars? Between the three brands discussed, the weights and sizes seem pretty similar:
- Veloflex ProTour Race 25mm 285g
- Vittoria Corsa 25mm 290g
- Conti Competition 25mm - their website says 245g but I don't think that's right... I've seen 280-285g listed elsewhere
- Conti Competition Pro-LTD 25mm... if I can find them

Anyone have actual widths of the tubulars inflated in real life? Any recommendations for one tire over the other, focusing on cornering grip first, then rr second? Do the Corsas still come out on top for the tubulars?

I've also been racing on my Veloflex tubs recently which I'm finding better for grip than the Veloflex clinchers (although I still think the wider Corsa clinchers are even grippier). I can run the tubs at lower pressures without them feeling "soggy" as well. I was generally running my Veloflex clinchers at around 85-90psi (I'm 80kg) with anything below that feeling a bit flat, whereas I've found running the tubs at 80psi is just fine. Haven't tried 75psi yet but thinking to give that a run next.
Not much choice out there for tubs and most people on here these days don't ride them/don't have experience with them. The tubular threads in the wheel subforum has some discussion about the current offerings that might have some insight for you:

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=161917

Not much in the way of consensus about the go-to tub these days. Personally I'm keen to try the Pirelli P Zeros (the normal latex offering) because they don't seem to be used at all on these boards yet are more World Tour battle tested than the latest Veloflex's, but I have a few Arenberg's/Roubaix's to ride out first.

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PSM
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by PSM

Interesting news below.
Last edited by PSM on Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PSM
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by PSM


Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Luften wrote:
Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:06 pm
Anyone have actual widths of the tubulars inflated in real life? Any recommendations for one tire over the other, focusing on cornering grip first, then rr second? Do the Corsas still come out on top for the tubulars?
I can confirm my Vittoria Corsa G+ 2.0 25mm tub measures 24.5mm @ 100psi. The G+ 1.0 is about 0.5mm narrower.

The Corsas are extremely grippy tires, dry and wet. I have a lot of confidence in them.

The G+ 2.0 is also quite durable, more so than the 1.0, which picks up crap, like grit and small stones from the road, as well as small cuts.

I run a 1.0 on the front and a 2.0 on the back, works great, I can't recommend them enough.
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chuingbeans
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:57 am

by chuingbeans

Luften wrote:Anyone have actual widths of the tubulars inflated in real life? Any recommendations for one tire over the other, focusing on cornering grip first, then rr second? Do the Corsas still come out on top for the tubulars?
Got some 26mm Corsa tubs that come up flush with my 26mm wide rims. Great grip in corners. But going from them to Veloflexes I always notice a ride quality difference. Focusing on grip though, the Vittorias have it for me.

mrlobber
Posts: 1928
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Location: Where the permanent autumn is

by mrlobber

The Conti Competitions are ~290g, plus butyl tube inside... no point choosing them. If Conti, then go for the Pro LTD versions (weigh the same)

Vittoria Corsa G2.0 25mm tubs are ~305g, 10-15g heavier than other competitors (Veloflex).

However, since my adventures with the non-gripping Veloflex ProTour 25mm (look in wheels subforum), I'm now hesitant to run them on anything but a straight line, especially if it is wet. Interestingly enough, the ProTour Race doesn't exhibit any of that behaviour, maybe because it has the "natural rubber compound" while the ProTour - "synthetic silica compound".

Have heard quite good things about the Michelin tubs, had one 25mm in the front in the mountains, quite nice. Ordered another one to replace the Veloflex on the rear.

In 28mm sizes, in my opinion, there's no contest - either Veloflex Vlaanderen (already phased out) or Specialized Hell of the North 28mm tub.
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Luften
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

@Nickldn - interesting, that seems quite narrow. Others seem to say 25.5mm to 26mm for the Corsa tubs.

@mrlobber - That's surprising about the ProTour standard versions. I wonder why they made them a different compound, I would have thought just make it a bit thicker and 320tpi instead of 350 and call it a wrap. I have the Race versions here, but I only ride them in the dry.

How wide do the Michelins come out in 25mm listed size? Weight?

What about the Specialized Turbo Allround 2 Tub in 26mm? Anyone have any experiences with that? I think that's another one on my shortlist - hopefully it has good grip like the corsa, and perhaps the smooth center will be low rr...?

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

Luften wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:21 am
@Nickldn - interesting, that seems quite narrow. Others seem to say 25.5mm to 26mm for the Corsa tubs.
Yes I have measured again and 24.5mm is the correct width. I am slightly surprised too, but unlike clincher tyres (Corsa clinchers are often wide) tubs hardly ever measure above the value printed on the tyre.
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Luften
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

I was out for a long ride a couple of days ago on the Veloflex ProRace tubs, and was thinking how nice they were to ride! 80psi and they did a great job smoothing out the road while still feeling fast and grippy. I should switch back to the clinchers again now to test how they are after all this testing and also improvements in my bike handling.

I also came across the new Pirelli tubs: the P-Zero Race SL. Apparently 275g in 26mm which sounds good if accurate, using a TPU tube. Anyone have experience with those? Actual weights? Grip and RR compared to the usual suspects?

romanmoser
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 8:30 pm

by romanmoser

yeah they sucks
shame slow rolling resistance as before
no point in a tub without latex inner tubes

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

romanmoser wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:06 pm
yeah they sucks
shame slow rolling resistance as before
no point in a tub without latex inner tubes
That is a shame, it would have been great to see an alternative to Vittoria Corsas tubs.

Would be good to see Aero Coach and Bicyclerollingresistance.com tests.
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Luften
Posts: 126
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:31 pm

by Luften

romanmoser wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 3:06 pm
yeah they sucks
shame slow rolling resistance as before
no point in a tub without latex inner tubes
Have you ridden them, or are you referring to a review or article which you could link to? It would be helpful to have some context.

Some of the TPUs can be as fast as latex, e.g. the Revoloop TPU is within 1w of the fastest latex and faster than the Michelin latex tubes on the AC data. (Although I don't think I saw what pressures everything was tested at...)

Nickldn
Posts: 1867
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

I thought the new Pirelli tubs were announced in April, but I haven't seen them on sale yet.

I would like to see some reviews to find out in the tubolito type inner tubes are on a par with latex in terms of RR.
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

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bobones
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by bobones

I noticed that MvDP was using 23 mm Vittoria Corsa Speed TLRs for his TT run in this year's Tour de France, so neither! 😊

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