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Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:10 am
by Karvalo
openwheelracing wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:06 am
Karvalo wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:53 pm

??? The broken handlebar and seatpostgate were parts engineered for aero and comfort, nothing to do with chasing weight. Any number of conventional parts would have been lighter and safer. And the bike with the snapped seatstay was so strong it rode just fine without it.
That's your argument as a pro-disc, anti-rim cyclist? :shock:
Err, no. I ride a rim brake bike I bought new last year. Assumption much? :noidea:

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:10 am
by Weenie

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Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:23 am
by openwheelracing
So help me understand your logics.

How are manufacturers "not chasing weight" when they practically raised the weight of all bikes by forcing disc, then having to lower weight of all components including paper thin frames? Discs hover around 7.3-7.8kg, while rim usually right above 6.8 sometimes with heavier parts just to make the limit.

I am mostly curious about your argument that a disc frame with mysterious broken seatstay is a positive for disc. Nothing to do with what you ride. I ride disc too.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:30 am
by TobinHatesYou
openwheelracing wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:23 am

I am mostly curious about your argument that a disc frame with mysterious broken seatstay is a positive for disc. Nothing to do with what you ride. I ride disc too.

A human body landed on the seatstay in a crash, you utter moron.

e: back into exile.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:30 am
by Karvalo
openwheelracing wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:23 am
I am mostly curious about your argument that a disc frame with mysterious broken seatstay is a positive for disc. Nothing to do with what you ride. I ride disc too.
Again, I'm confused. Why are you assuming I'm arguing that was a positive specifically for discs? I certainly didn't say it was.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:43 am
by openwheelracing
I do apologize. Too many people making arguments.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:10 am
by mgrl
openwheelracing wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:06 am
Karvalo wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:53 pm

??? The broken handlebar and seatpostgate were parts engineered for aero and comfort, nothing to do with chasing weight. Any number of conventional parts would have been lighter and safer. And the bike with the snapped seatstay was so strong it rode just fine without it.
That's your argument as a pro-disc, anti-rim cyclist? :shock:
It snapped in a massive crash when he got rode into, what exactly is your point here

(If you wanted to debate disc vs rim on riding with only one seat stay... well, unless they were mounted under the BB the rim brake caliper wouldn't be there any more. But in that case he'd have just jumped on a spare, and it's not like rim brake bikes are indestructible in crashes so - again - what is your point here)

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:15 am
by mgrl
On a side note cervelo have said on multiple occasions that seatstays are, outside of UCI rules, just for show/mounting rim brakes on. The reason that they can be so skinny nowadays is because so little force goes through them, even with rim brakes.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:42 am
by warthog101

tommyboyo wrote:

Plus it's lovely not to have that horrible grinding sound as the grit destroys your lovely rims everytime you pull the brake lever.
I hate riding in the rain, but yeah, that would be great.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:43 am
by openwheelracing
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=161950

Point was made in my previous post. Compromises to keep weight down. "New tech" for the sake of selling something new. If you think seatstays are only good for mounting rim caliper I dare you cut off your seat stays and let's see how it performs. I bet still over weight.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:12 am
by Alexbn921
cveks wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:29 pm
Exact my point.

Mainly newbies, noobs, victims of cycling industry marketing ride disc bikes.

Old school guys who are like 5+ years of cycling are almost 90% all rim brakes.
When I was 14 I rode 3600 miles in 34 days across the USA on a loaded Miyata 721a with a biopace triple on it. Made it into sports illustrated. My Grandfather and I where fully self supported and he was 62.
IMG_0781.JPG
By the time I was 15 I had done over 100 century rides.

For over 3 decades I have been into bikes. I even ran a bike shop as a senior in high school.
I wanted disk brakes since before 2010, but was unable to find any reasonable options. The teething pains and where I knew the standards where going made me wait. Now, everything I was waiting for has come to pass exactly as I predicted over 10 years ago. Choices are plentiful and I am happy.

People around here spend crazy money on bikes and over 90% are on disks. The only ones that aren’t simple have an older bike and want disk. Out of the 200+ rides I know/ride with, maybe 1 prefers rim brakes.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:29 am
by iheartbianchi
Alexbn921 wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:12 am

People around here spend crazy money on bikes and over 90% are on disks. The only ones that aren’t simple have an older bike and want disk. Out of the 200+ rides I know/ride with, maybe 1 prefers rim brakes.
Sorry, but emotional arguments like this is equally ridiculous to the claims made by the rim group.

You're all engaging in so much hyperbole it's ridiculous. Some people just prefer rim, and even now, there are people with money shelling out $$$$ for brand new rim brake bikes. I wouldn't do it personally, but you can't knock their decision by saying they have older bikes or somehow can't afford new bikes.

I know a guy who has bought 4 Colnagos in the last 2 years. He is a Colnago nut. All rim, and his bikes are beautiful, as are his multiple Porsches. Another guy I ride with has bought 5 bikes in the last 3 years (a TCR, Madone, Factor, Pinarello, Tarmac), all rim. I recall he bought the Tarmac and Madone specifically because they were the last models to be offered in rim. He's also buying up all the rim brake rims he can find and has quite the wheel collection for the 12 or so top of the line bikes in his stable (the man has an entire room of just bikes lined up on display in his house). He makes millions a year and can certainly afford disc but he hates discs for whatever reason. I don't agree with these choices, but to characterize these guys as poor people on old bikes is ridiculous.

For whatever it's worth, these guys aren't racers, and are older gentlemen with significant work/family commitments so they can't afford to get injured. They crawl downhill and have their bikes setup like MTBs with minimal drops for comfort. They enjoy cruising and riding to cafes and taking pictures, so I rarely ride with them. At the speeds they are going (averaging under 30km/h for a 2-3 hour ride), they have no need for disc.

For me personally, I can't wait for the XR6 or whatever it will be called to be released so I can jump on the disc bandwagon :)

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:17 am
by Karvalo
openwheelracing wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:43 am
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=161950

Point was made in my previous post. Compromises to keep weight down. "New tech" for the sake of selling something new. If you think seatstays are only good for mounting rim caliper I dare you cut off your seat stays and let's see how it performs. I bet still over weight.
But it's not. Like for like disc frames are not appreciably lighter than rim frames. On the current version of the R5 there's an 18g difference between them. You think that's enough for one of them to be strong and robust with sensible wall thicknesses and for the other one to be paper thin, brittle and compromised? Get real.

As Tobin pointed out, a person landed on the rear triangle in a high energy crash. No way is that staying intact on any race bike no matter what brake system is bolted to it. The fact that the bike was strong enough to be rideable without it is a positive for modern frame design and capabilities in general, not specifically for discs.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:21 am
by Maddie
Instead of pissing at each other, let's have a bit of fun. The four kinds of people that buy rim bikes:
1. –
2. –
3. –
4. Actually no one (clearly shown between 2017 and 2021 when it actually mattered)
5. Was too late to the party. Was ready to buy a new SL7 rim but realized that it's not available in rim spec
6. There is a minority left on the WW forum. But in reality, they would not buy a new rim bike since they think new bikes are too expensive nowadays anyway. Still perfectly happy with their 10 year old SS Evo that weigh 6.3kg but still want all manufacturers to offer every frameset in rim and disc spec (they would be ok if they offered rim only frames though)

Just to be clear, nothing wrong with the SS Evo :-) And I belong to a even smaller group of people who actually bought two new rim framesets in 2021 (SL6). One of them is ridden and one is kept new, not even the steerer is cut. I expect the same value increase like the last 911 air-cooled Porsches (993) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:49 am
by tjvirden
Hehe!
Every Porsche 911 owner thinks that theirs is the last proper 911 !! :lol:

[I'm not being serious with this.......it's only a small % :wink: ]

But that box fresh SL6 probably won't lose any value....
Alexbn921 wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:12 am
When I was 14 I rode......
Now that is a road trip! :thumbup:

A great privilege to be able to that with your Grandfather - no doubt the memory of a lifetime.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:03 am
by iheartbianchi
Speaking of Porsche's, I kind of see a parallel in the rim/disc debate to the manual/PDK debate. Anyone who has kept up with Porsche knows that the manual option commands a significant premium among the aficionados.

Re: Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:03 am
by Weenie

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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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