Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

[MikeD]

I wonder how many mountain bike and cycle cross racers think they should run rim brakes? Zero? They must have all kinds of race ruining problems everyday especially with it being impossible to change wheels without rubbing. All that servicing isn't even possible without a team of mechanics working 24/7.

Road bikes aren't a special unicorn and disks aren't new technology. People know how to work on them from 20+ years of experience. Viva la revolucion of disks in everything.

Apples and oranges comparison.

[Alexbn921]

Same technology and all the arguments against it are a non issue. More apples to apples or bike to bike.

[blutto]

Given its just bike to bike and road bikes aren't special unicorns and all really looking forward to seeing a MTB used exclusively winning the Tour....or a TT bike....or a track bike....or a recumbent...

Cheers

[Alexbn921]

Just like they use climbing bikes on TT stages.

[blaugrana]

I wonder how many mountain bike and cycle cross racers think they should run rim brakes? Zero? They must have all kinds of race ruining problems everyday especially with it being impossible to change wheels without rubbing. All that servicing isn't even possible without a team of mechanics working 24/7.

Road bikes aren't a special unicorn and disks aren't new technology. People know how to work on them from 20+ years of experience. Viva la revolucion of disks in everything.

I don't know about MTB, but in Cyclocross no one swaps wheels mid race. A puncture, or the slightest mechanical issue means that the rider takes a new bike from the pits (which barely costs any time, with good dismount and remount technique).

[Alexbn921]

do they one have 1 set of wheels per bike or is it more likely that they have seval sets with tires mounted for various conditions? The technical challenges have already been overcome in other forms of cycling and No one complains about disks slowing them down when they are not supposed to. No one is even thinks about rim brakes.

Road bikes can still get away with rim and they may be a better choice on a mountain top finish if you can't make weight. With a relatively easy to hit weight limit, disks shouldn't Be a hindrance in climbing or any other situation. For me the list of drawbacks is far shorter the list of advantages. I'm seasoned from 20+ years of disks maintance, so it's not even something that crosses my mind to have a road bike with them.

[cveks]

Durian Rider explained with facts why disc brakes suck in pro peloton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ourw-JhOJu8

Matej Mohoric rear wheel locked up on wet in curve so he crashed . He is lucky not to fall off the cliff / to be alive. That is so called better disc brake braking in wet. This cant happen with rim brakes. Your wheel will never lockup.

Disc brakes are either rubbing or locking up. Very dangerous in road racing.

[TobinHatesYou]

QED. Durianrider has spoken.

[cveks]

thats what I am telling from the start.

Main goal = extract as much money as possible from cyclist pockets.

Remember what was average 7kg bike cost like 5 years ago and what is now? Prices inflated like 3-4-5 times....

This is a good point, but it's not exactly what you think.

Before (more expensive) carbon technology came to the forefront, even race bikes (which used simple, cheap technology) were more or less affordable by ordinary people.

With the introduction lighter, more expensive carbon technology, the pros obviously adopted this technology since marginal benefits and they need to go fast to win. But by this point the general population had gotten used to riding "race bikes." So people insist on continuing to buy race bikes, even though the prices are naturally going up.

But a lot of consumers still reject the "trickled down" versions of race tech for consumer use (e.g., Ultegra and 105) and continue to strive for Dura-Ace/Super Record and the highest end carbon, which is why prices are ridiculous. There really should be two segments of road bikes - consumer, and race. Most of us don't belong on race bikes, race bikes actually hurt a lot of people with too aggressive geometries (which is why you see so many high-end bikes setup like an MTB).

But you can't tell people how to spend their money, and you can't blame the industry for catering to people who want to "look pro."

Interestingly, you see a ton of Cat 5 riders on discs and the fanciest carbon bikes. They still crash. You also see a lot of Cat 1-2 riders using Ultegra and riding aluminum wheels. The also crash. Unless you are fully sponsored, replacing parts are really expensive. In our government funded junior program, we still used the cheapest frames we could get, and Ultegra components. Carbon wheels were only reserved for races, and sometimes we didn't have enough to go around, so some kids just used alumninum - kind of sucks but not a terribly big deal. We trained exclusively on aluminium wheels. Lots of second hand kit passed down as well. We certainly couldn't afford to have TT bikes for everyone.

Back in the 60s/70s, plenty rich people could still afford to purchase LeMans winning cars. These days? Only the world's wealthiest can. They had to create an entire new segment for "consumer" cars that the general public can purchase due to the stratification of technology. Bicycles won't ever get to that level, but it's a similar notion that the general public has no need for technology used at the cutting-edge of racing at the highest level.

Great observation. If you are not sponsored by Specialized, Shimano, Ceramic Speed etc. Ride cheap / reliable. Thats why most of Cat riders ride chinese noname framesets and wheelsets. They dont have luxury to crash and brake with 10k $/euro bike/frameset.

[cveks]

Re: what consumers strive for

Total shipments of 105 vs Ultegra vs UDi2 vs DA Di2 vs DA mechanical beg to differ.

The lone anomaly is Ultegra mechanical with inflated totals vs expectation, so I would say that consumers mostly seem to be striving for Ultegra mechanical.

Oh for sure 105 / Ultegra sell like hot cakes. I am referring to the small subsegment of consumers (mostly WW members) who insist on having the latest and greatest stuff, and the industry is more than happy to sell them to us at full price!

Also very good point. Mechanical groupsets are dependable and cheap on the long run.

My mechanic is bugging me for years that I should switch to electronic groupsets instead mechanical. You will have better shifting. I dont buy that. Recently few friends of mine had crashes because DI2 lag , generally chain wrapped for some reason and brake up chainset, and both derailleurs. Total damage cost around 1500 euros. My biggest damage until this date was roller falling of rear D. screw got losen up from vibrations. Even if whole rear derailleur was destroyed that would cost me somewhere around 60 euros instead 400 which I will need to pay at least for electronic in case of failure.

[tomato]

Durian Rider explained with facts why disc brakes suck in pro peloton

A guy locks up his rear wheel, and some doofus thinks it's because he had disc brakes. Brilliant!

Matej Mohoric rear wheel locked up on wet in curve so he crashed . He is lucky not to fall off the cliff / to be alive. That is so called better disc brake braking in wet. This cant happen with rim brakes. Your wheel will never lockup.

Disc brakes are either rubbing or locking up. Very dangerous in road racing.

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

From the linked video:
"Road disc is okay for amateur riders, for newbs (?) sort of, but for pros at this speed they're dangerous. Very, very dangerous."

Apparently, amateurs are better at braking than pros ...

[cveks]

Durian Rider explained with facts why disc brakes suck in pro peloton

A guy locks up his rear wheel, and some doofus thinks it's because he had disc brakes. Brilliant!

From the linked video:
"Road disc is okay for amateur riders, for newbs (?) sort of, but for pros at this speed they're dangerous. Very, very dangerous."

Apparently, amateurs are better at braking than pros ...

Not true.

Amateurs dont have balls / watts to ride bike on speeds downhill which pro riders do. Thats why are disc brakes more dangerours in pro peloton than with guy whos average wattage is somewhere around 120.

Why Mohoric crashed ? What is your explanation.

[cveks]

Few more disc brake failures on pro race level....

And these guys have mechanics and gear which we will never do.

I also heard that lot of teams who ride discs , threw away Shimano road rotors and switched to XTR they dont warp / lock up so often as road rotors do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m61cqPO5AY

[cveks]

Remco Evenpoel also crashed and had life threatening injuries because of disc brakes failure. You can't deny that.

He wasn't sloppy. His brakes simple failed him he was unable to break / stop himself and because of that he had almost fatal injuries.

That happens when you ride disc brakes on pro level on high speeds. Especially on descents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gPJ3r_BXL8

[MoPho]