You're so far off base.iheartbianchi wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:01 pmWrong. Maybe 40-50 year old MAMILs will struggle to adapt to new technology, but you're nuts if you think 20 year old world tour riders are incapable of quickly adapating to disc brakes. Even your bang average Cat 3 rider can adapt to disc brakes. But you're telling me kids who can hop in any direction in a track stand on command, bunny hop with no hands, do 180 bunny hops, and generally have elite level bike handling skills (because they are...elite) are somehow uncomfortable or incapble of adapting to disc brakes? Not to mention, they adapt to new technology all the time because it's demanded of them?Lina wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:54 am
Let's throw a bunch of guys that have ridden all their life on rim brakes into a downhill on brand new brakes and see if they're faster with the system they've always used or on something new. You can't really draw are conclusions from that outside of you're faster on equipment you know. It's also essentially the entire argument for why pros prefer rim brakes. They've used them for their entire lives so they're used to them.
We used to throw kids on all kinds of bikes, all sorts of new tech. Different pedals, shoes, different cockpit setups, saddles, positions, experimented a ton. Guess what? The adapation is near instantaneous, they listen and execute with remarkable resilience and speed. The only thing our kids had trouble adapating to was when we put them on fixed gear from road, or vice versa. Their first time on a TT bike is a bit awkward, but they get the hang of it in a day. Really not hard when it's your job.
You don't understand racing. Braking in a race is a VERY niche application. Do you know how much time we spent training our elite cyclists how to brake on downhills? Zero. Actually I don't even know how we would design a braking training session. Go really fast and brake until you lock up and fall over? That reminds me - we did do drills where we intentionally locked up the rear wheel to get our riders comfortable with rear wheel slip, but we would never even consider asking them to lock up their front wheel intentionally. Also, if you're concerned about braking in a downhill in a racing sitaution, you are doing something terribly wrong. Going downhill is all about going down as fast as you can, and the biggest part of this is good line (which means recon recon recon and memorizing each turn before the race), precise weight distribution, micro shifts in center of gravity during a turn, and minimal application of brake possible.Lina wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:54 amObjectively looking the pros outweigh the cons for discs outside of very niche applications like hill climbs. And practically all the cons that people normally list are caused by mistakes in the setup or choosing parts that are bad. It's also why in new bike sales discs dominate.
Take off the disc brake rotors and apds and weigh it and multiply by two, and then tell me it's not heavier than a rim brake. Your whole proprietary/integrated cockipit argument is moot b/c that applies to both rim and disc brake bikes. All things being equal, a disc brake bike is heavier, full stop.
Thinking about young professionals picking things up quickly......they don't. There's an enormous list of incidents (well, let's call them crashes) in the last, say, four years caused purely by poor handling skills and overconfidence. Far, far too many of the current pro peletons (men and women) do not have the skills to ride a bicycle close to limits of handling. They have spent almost all of their, still limited, careers focused on athletic performance - given the level of competition that's not a surprise, but it has serious consequences.
Let's take two of highest profile new gen male bicycle athletes - Evenepoel and van Aert; both came close to career ENDING injuries, through simple misjudgment of ordinary circumstances. A more recent example is McNulty - he's a danger to himself and everyone nearby.
We could go on with a very big list, but it's a simple fact that a lot pros don't have elite-level handling skills - the evidence is broadcast widely whenever they race.