Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

[Coolcat]

I see lots of new rim brake bikes (previous years' models) in stores on sale! Good discount! So rim brake fans should rejoice!

2018 NOS rim brake bikes on sale in 2021

The same bikes in reasonable condition available second hand until 2026

Nothing in 2031

Not much to look forward to for the rim brake fans.

[Mawashi]

I'll add my 2 cents into this discussion as I have 2 bikes 1 disk and another with rim brakes.

Rim brakes
I live in a very wet country with average rainfall of 2m yearly. I suffered yrs of awful braking when I used carbon wheels in the wet. Granted things have improved somewhat but its still sketchy when braking in the wet w rim brakes.

With the advent of 30mm tires its makes rim brakes even more difficult to mount as the rims get wider n wider. Unless the caliper brakes get a redesign.

What I love about rims is they just roll better, are less of a hassle n if the created rims that work great in the wet n dry I'll not switch.

Disk brakes
Other than the great braking and the cool factor they are a bit of a pain actually. They don't roll as well, are a hassle to maintain and add unnecessary weight.

As a weekend rider, disks are great when dealing w clueless riders n Karens on the cycle lanes.

[AW84]

How do they weigh the bikes to see if they are at minimum weight. I guess it is complete with pedals, cages and computer still on the bike?
If so, wouldn't they need a disc bike to weigh approx 6.3kg 'naked'?

It can't include anything that can be removed without tools and the bike still be rideable*, so computers don't count, I believe. But given how manufacturers typically list bike weights, then let's allow ~500g for pedals, cages, computer and mount, so yeah, you'd need a 6.3kg 'list' weight to hit the limit.

I didn't think about the weight of the "extras" in assuming that all the bikes in the field are an equal 6.8kg. So it's likely every disc bike in the peloton is giving up perhaps as much as 3/4- to 1-lb. to the lightest rim bikes (like Tadej's Colnago but probably not the Pinarello) when fully race ready?

[Dannnnn]

I'll add my 2 cents into this discussion as I have 2 bikes 1 disk and another with rim brakes.

Rim brakes
I live in a very wet country with average rainfall of 2m yearly. I suffered yrs of awful braking when I used carbon wheels in the wet. Granted things have improved somewhat but its still sketchy when braking in the wet w rim brakes.

With the advent of 30mm tires its makes rim brakes even more difficult to mount as the rims get wider n wider. Unless the caliper brakes get a redesign.

What I love about rims is they just roll better, are less of a hassle n if the created rims that work great in the wet n dry I'll not switch.

Disk brakes
Other than the great braking and the cool factor they are a bit of a pain actually. They don't roll as well, are a hassle to maintain and add unnecessary weight.

As a weekend rider, disks are great when dealing w clueless riders n Karens on the cycle lanes.

That pretty much sums up my experience too (one rim and one disc).
I'll add in that rim brake bikes also look better (imo)

I got "stuck" with a disc bike because I wanted a new tarmac and Spesh no longer make rim brake frames.

[Mawashi]

That pretty much sums up my experience too (one rim and one disc).
I'll add in that rim brake bikes also look better (imo)

I got "stuck" with a disc bike because I wanted a new tarmac and Spesh no longer make rim brake frames.

I find rims very old school and having used them for more than 20 yrs I find disks cool.

The only rim bike bike I'll find cool would be an aero bike which allows 28mm wheels and has hidden rim brakes calipers like some of the TT bikes in the tour de France.

However, for me to really love rim brakes they'll have to do something like add a strip of high wearing material like graphene for the braking surface and create thermal insulation so the inner tubes don't blow up from the heat from continuous braking.

Disks solve some of the problems but create a hosts of others. Uneven brake mounts, too many brake standards, center lock vs 6 bolts etc etc.

What's driving me nuts however, is how rudimentary the systems are. No adjustment bolts to help w the spacing between the rotors n calipers, warping prone steel/alu rotors etc.

At least Rotor were brave enough to try a fully self contained hydro system.

Complexity + poor qc isn't what I want to be paying for.

Strangely I think Chinese frames makes like ican, wheelspace are making better bikes than the likes of some of the bigger brands out there.

[cveks]

Its obvious . Everyone is faster with 650 grams ligther bike on big climbs . That is why there is no point for me getting disc equipped bike ever. I need to spend 2-3000 euro on groupset like for new Dura Ace or Sram Red AXP to get bike wich weights same as rim brake equipped bike with Tiagra or 105. No point.

[cveks]

Say you are on a big climb, narrow road, no team car. Have a puncture and need a wheel. If you're on rim, it's just pop the quick release and take from your teammate. Gone in under 1 min. If you're on disc, it's not that simple (alignment issues in particular, but just getting your thru axle out unless you have your riders carrying a 5mm hex). Rotor alignment can't be the same because you also have to account for pad wear between bikes plus the hub quality and tolerances must be extremely tight for them to be equal.

Since the stages where disc performance would be most useful are the ones you would need rim to practically have your best shot at winning it makes the disc argument for professionals less relevant.

To get wheels on 10 plus bikes to be interchangeable with no disc rub would be a huge or impossible endeavor. That's a pretty good reason when you actually want to win the TdF. On a flat or less climbing stage you have the car and just take a new bike. You can't count on that high in the mountains.

Great, great post mate!

You are completely right.

[warthog101]

I'm tipping I'm never going to be on a big climb with a team car or a team mate to grab a wheel off.
I'll have to take my time and fix the puncture myself.
What sort of braking choice my bike has will matter not.

[MikeD]

I'm tipping I'm never going to be on a big climb with a team car or a team mate to grab a wheel off.
I'll have to take my time and fix the puncture myself.
What sort of braking choice my bike has will matter not.

Yes but if you actually torqued that thruaxle to spec with a torque wrench in your garage, you might find that with the short Allen key on your multitool you can't generate enough torque to unscrew the thruaxle.

[Mocs123]

Do most people not use thru-axles with a handle like a QR?

I think rim brakes and QR's still make sense for the pro peloton, for weight savings, ease of wheel changes, etc. for most of us mortals (that climb) disc brakes and thru axles are an improvement (especially with more people on carbon rims). Pro riders are on tubs which handle the heat better with rim brakes. Flat land riders like Florida and The Netherlands are probably just as well off on rim brakes though.

I have a rim brake bike, a mechanical disc bike, and a hydraulic disc bike. The mechanical disc (gravel bike) brakes worse than my rim brake bike, but all do fine in the dry. On long descents, particularly those over 10%, or in the rain, I have a lot more confidence in my hydraulic disc bike. My rim brake bike is my lightest bike (6.5kg) and my raciest geometry but if I could afford a disc brake bike that light I'd go for it. The brakes keep me from riding it sometimes and have me reaching for my heavier (8.3kg) disc bike instead. Today for example, I have a 61km club ride after work. It's raining now and will probably still be raining when we start the ride and with over 1000m of climbing (and descending) on wet roads, I'll be riding my disc bike.

I feel that the requirements of a professional rider are different from the average cyclist. For example, I could not imagine riding a 53/39 up a mountain, but the pro riders are powerful enough where that's not a problem. Tubs are a pain for everyday use, but for pro riders in races, they make sense. And rim brakes, with their lighter weight and quick wheel changes make sense for pro riders on some mountain stages.

[Miller]

When disc brake has been presented as it has, people have been jumping this new big thing.
Still funny that 99% hated disc brakes on road bikes for years and years and all of a sudden they love it.
It really says all about of how most humans work, they follow but like to believe otherwise.

I put together a road disc bike in late 2013, with Campag, which was not too easy then, and here is the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=119840

That particular bike was very significant for my cycling life, not so much for the brakes as for the frame clearance. It opened up gravel riding for me and that was and continues to be a revelation.

[choochoo46]

here's a break down of what frames, brakes, tires, etc, were used at TDF this year.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/to ... with-what/

[GregR]

I'd be inclined to recommend a rim brake bike for the TdF (etc) with the exception of stages where advantage could be gained from braking later and harder into tight corners on high speed descents. This would require a rider who can take advantage of the superior braking, though. I suspect that most can't.
I'm becoming more and more suspicious that pro team mechanics aren't actually all that good at their jobs. How is it that my disc brakes don't rub and pro team bikes have brakes that rub? Lol, I'm just a nobody with a decent set of tools. Pro errr amateur tip: when the pads are worn a bunch, like >50%, they are way less likely to rub. How come the pro teams don't seem to know this?
Pro team riders are not naturally the best judges of what the best equipment is. And even if they are, the demands etc of the pro Pelton are so irrelevant to me and the riding that I do. I'm keeping my disc brake bike, thanks. I'll take out the rim brake bike when I go roll the flatlands, but the rest of the time it's disc.
It's underrated on here how much less maintenance a disc brake system needs compared to rim brakes which are always needing adjustment, pad changes, pad cleaning etc. Once the pads wear in a bit, you rarely have to touch them.

[naylor343]

I'd be inclined to recommend a rim brake bike for the TdF (etc) with the exception of stages where advantage could be gained from braking later and harder into tight corners on high speed descents. This would require a rider who can take advantage of the superior braking, though. I suspect that most can't.
I'm becoming more and more suspicious that pro team mechanics aren't actually all that good at their jobs. How is it that my disc brakes don't rub and pro team bikes have brakes that rub? Lol, I'm just a nobody with a decent set of tools. Pro errr amateur tip: when the pads are worn a bunch, like >50%, they are way less likely to rub. How come the pro teams don't seem to know this?
Pro team riders are not naturally the best judges of what the best equipment is. And even if they are, the demands etc of the pro Pelton are so irrelevant to me and the riding that I do. I'm keeping my disc brake bike, thanks. I'll take out the rim brake bike when I go roll the flatlands, but the rest of the time it's disc.
It's underrated on here how much less maintenance a disc brake system needs compared to rim brakes which are always needing adjustment, pad changes, pad cleaning etc. Once the pads wear in a bit, you rarely have to touch them.

"The mechanics are not that good at their jobs" Really?

So take your one, maybe two disc brake bikes, then get what shall we estimate, 30 more road bikes? Then add what, 16 TT bikes? Then get every single bike and wheelset dialled in so that every wheel from every bike can be swapped at will, without any disc rub. Then add in the incredible quantity of spare wheels used, not to mention neutral service wheels out of the teams control. When you can do this you will not only be the worlds best pro team mechanic, you will be a God.

[C36]

I'd be inclined to recommend a rim brake bike for the TdF (etc) with the exception of stages where advantage could be gained from braking later and harder into tight corners on high speed descents. This would require a rider who can take advantage of the superior braking, though. I suspect that most can't.
I'm becoming more and more suspicious that pro team mechanics aren't actually all that good at their jobs. How is it that my disc brakes don't rub and pro team bikes have brakes that rub? Lol, I'm just a nobody with a decent set of tools. Pro errr amateur tip: when the pads are worn a bunch, like >50%, they are way less likely to rub. How come the pro teams don't seem to know this?
Pro team riders are not naturally the best judges of what the best equipment is. And even if they are, the demands etc of the pro Pelton are so irrelevant to me and the riding that I do. I'm keeping my disc brake bike, thanks. I'll take out the rim brake bike when I go roll the flatlands, but the rest of the time it's disc.
It's underrated on here how much less maintenance a disc brake system needs compared to rim brakes which are always needing adjustment, pad changes, pad cleaning etc. Once the pads wear in a bit, you rarely have to touch them.

"The mechanics are not that good at their jobs" Really?

So take your one, maybe two disc brake bikes, then get what shall we estimate, 30 more road bikes? Then add what, 16 TT bikes? Then get every single bike and wheelset dialled in so that every wheel from every bike can be swapped at will, without any disc rub. Then add in the incredible quantity of spare wheels used, not to mention neutral service wheels out of the teams control. When you can do this you will not only be the worlds best pro team mechanic, you will be a God.

I had few beers after the tdf arrival with a friend mechanic and I asked him the question. In short, the different tolerances in frames / hubs / discs make things very complicated to tune for ALL the bikes and ALL the wheels combination. once you think you have it done, for whatever reason a rider starts having rub. You can also add the number of discs that are deformed after a single mountain stage (so during a stage), then forcing to regularly install new discs and potentially readjusting again the wheel to the bike.

Now, if a team had close partnership with wheel brand that had a real race department, they could machine their hubs to very tight tolerances, you do the same on a center lock disc ans you could ensure disc position within few 100s of mm. then build a jig with the same tolerances and you could adjust everything way faster.
Edit: this type of partnership seems gone for most of the teams for quite some time now