Please don’t make this a rim vs disc bloodfest. Stage 17 won with rim brake

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

Locked
alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

As long as disc brake bikes have a greater resale value, why invest in rim brake?

I always buy 2nd hand and I like cheaper performance bikes so I will buy rim brake bikes for a long time.

I don't really care which braking system. They both have their advantages.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

I am just a nobody behind a keyboard. Expressing my opinion. No one has to like it. Please don't "believe" me. Buy whatever makes you happy that's all it matters. I am not trying to steer anyone away from disc. I just bought wife disc bike

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10124
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:02 am
I am just a nobody behind a keyboard. Expressing my opinion. No one has to like it. Please don't "believe" me. Buy whatever makes you happy that's all it matters. I am not trying to steer anyone away from disc. I just bought wife disc bike

You made objectively false statements and I'm calling you out on it.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:19 am
openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:02 am
I am just a nobody behind a keyboard. Expressing my opinion. No one has to like it. Please don't "believe" me. Buy whatever makes you happy that's all it matters. I am not trying to steer anyone away from disc. I just bought wife disc bike

You made objectively false statements and I'm calling you out on it.
What is the false statement? That I just bought a disc bike? Or that my wife had many disc bikes to choose from, but impossible to get a rim bike?

If it makes you feel better about yourself then yes I am some random guy who made all that up. I don't know any respected shop owners and I don't discuss bikes with founder of any bike brand. Disc brake rules!!! Lighter, cheaper and faster. You win.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10124
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:01 am

What is the false statement?

Code: Select all

We don't know exactly consumers "flocked" to disc.
That's marketing talk. We only know everything sells out extremely fast.
Here are some quotes from 2017

Shimano
“It is across the board, not just high- or low-end bikes or groups,” Lawrence says. “It really ramped up in the second half of 2017, both OE [meaning original equipment sold to bike brands] and aftermarket. We have not been able to meet demand for Dura-Ace and Ultegra hydraulics. There is a good chance we will see disc eclipse rim brake in total sales in 2018.”

SRAM
For model year 2018 product, discs represented 67 percent of all sales, Zellmann says, compared to 44 percent for model year 2017. (Model years are often a year ahead of the actual calendar. For example, SRAM sold MY2018 brakes during 2017.) Of those MY2018 sales, discs represented a whopping 87 percent of road brakes sold as OE to bike brands, according to SRAM.

As of 2021, road rim sales for SRAM are essentially 0%. Shimano hasn't revealed 2020/2021 sales figures, but I would bet rim-brake OE now accounts for less than 10% of their total road shipments.

User avatar
cveks
Posts: 351
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:15 pm
Contact:

by cveks

alcatraz wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:28 am
As long as disc brake bikes have a greater resale value, why invest in rim brake?

I always buy 2nd hand and I like cheaper performance bikes so I will buy rim brake bikes for a long time.

I don't really care which braking system. They both have their advantages.
Who says they have?

They have bigger loss of value because they cost way more...

4-5 more is price cost of disc bike of same weight as his rim brake counterpart is minimal price difference.

I assembled rim brake bike weighting less than 6.8 kg for less than 1500 euros . Scott CR1 Pro

Same weight disc brake bike , bellow 7 kg costs usually over 10.000 euros.

For like 5 years I will probably be able to sell mine for 1000 euros. Yours wont be able to sell for more than 2000.

In my case I lost 500 euros for 5 years. You lost 8000.

Lina
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:52 am
If "practically no one wants rim brakes" then why is rim/disc such a hot debate topic? In most discussion I see more people want rim still. The evidence is quite obvious.
Because a loud minority keeps malding about the loss of new rim brake bikes.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

cveks wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:04 am
alcatraz wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:28 am
As long as disc brake bikes have a greater resale value, why invest in rim brake?

I always buy 2nd hand and I like cheaper performance bikes so I will buy rim brake bikes for a long time.

I don't really care which braking system. They both have their advantages.
Who says they have?

They have bigger loss of value because they cost way more...

4-5 more is price cost of disc bike of same weight as his rim brake counterpart is minimal price difference.

I assembled rim brake bike weighting less than 6.8 kg for less than 1500 euros . Scott CR1 Pro

Same weight disc brake bike , bellow 7 kg costs usually over 10.000 euros.

For like 5 years I will probably be able to sell mine for 1000 euros. Yours wont be able to sell for more than 2000.

In my case I lost 500 euros for 5 years. You lost 8000.
I buy older performance bikes. Like now I can get a Cervelo S5 rim brake frame for like 800usd used.

My example was about the people that like to buy new top tier bikes. Madone disc brake or madone rim brake?

Flasher
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:10 pm

by Flasher

Lina wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:17 am
openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:52 am
If "practically no one wants rim brakes" then why is rim/disc such a hot debate topic? In most discussion I see more people want rim still. The evidence is quite obvious.
Because a loud minority keeps malding about the loss of new rim brake bikes.
As opposed to the bullying and ridiculing group that thinks spending more on a disc brake bike makes them somehow superior, this is Weight Weenies and not Bloated-Bikes.com.

Remember it's not about the bike, the fittest person that brakes the least wins!

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10124
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Flasher wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:25 pm

As opposed to the bullying and ridiculing group that thinks spending more on a disc brake bike makes them somehow superior, this is Weight Weenies and not Bloated-Bikes.com.

Remember it's not about the bike, the fittest person that brakes the least wins!

Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty. Us disc-brake havers like our disc brakes. We deem them superior in some ways and know they are slightly heavier, and can squeal if the wrong pads are used in cold/wet conditions. What we don't do is call never-disc users marketing victims, sheep, noobs, etc.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

Flasher wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:25 pm

As opposed to the bullying and ridiculing group that thinks spending more on a disc brake bike makes them somehow superior, this is Weight Weenies and not Bloated-Bikes.com.

Remember it's not about the bike, the fittest person that brakes the least wins!
I'm not convinced there are many people on WW who feel superior because they've bought a certain type of bike. Anyone riding a bike - any bike - and enjoying themselves is winning, organised competition or not.

cveks wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:04 am
..........
......

I assembled rim brake bike weighting less than 6.8 kg for less than 1500 euros . Scott CR1 Pro

Same weight disc brake bike , bellow 7 kg costs usually over 10.000 euros.

.......
Cveks, chill!

Your choice of bike is perfectly valid....and it's a good one. The advantage you now have, because many people want disc brakes, is that many excellent rim brake bikes become available at low prices; that's good for you isn't it? The overwhelming majority of cyclists don't have €/$/£10000 to spend on a bike, but I've picked up amazing bargains because some people are able to spend a lot and do so. Someone wants to pay a premium for a disc brake bike? Let them - their choice is valid too.

openwheelracing
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 6:41 am

by openwheelracing

Funny I specifically said it's marketing talk, so you go and quote their marketing material. No one called you a "sheep"my friend. You just can't handle a little difference of opinion.

Like I said, Rolex controls what they want to sell, not the consumers.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 10124
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:00 pm
Funny I specifically said it's marketing talk, so you go and quote their marketing material. No one called you a "sheep"my friend. You just can't handle a little difference of opinion.

Like I said, Rolex controls what they want to sell, not the consumers.

I quoted marketing material?

iggg
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:10 pm

by iggg

tomato wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:13 pm
iggg wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:15 pm
Which marketing message, in your opinion, influenced me to buy disk brakes?
Advertising By bike manUfacturers can be verY subtle - you Don't always see It aS Clearly as you might think.
Haha, this is a good one. Too bad it's not how it works. Messaging like this is used when multiple brands are selling a similar product and are trying to differentiate themselves by pushing forward their brand - "Buy Specialed!" or "Buy Trek!". They can justify this by enumerating features that they believe are compelling to customers, like...disk brakes:) - but they must be sure it's indeed something customers want. No one is trying to sell you a car that smells like a horse for a premium - because horse smell does not sell.

Really, you keep blaming everyone but cyslists for the demise of rim brakes. There is no consipacy againt rim brakes, it's just customers stopped buying them (this happened first) and manufactures adapted to it by shifting attention to what customers want.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



iggg
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:10 pm

by iggg

openwheelracing wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:47 pm
Can't say new buyers "prefer" disc brake when their only choice is disc brake.
5-7 years ago there were fewer disk-brake models than rim-disk ones. And yet, disks sold well and rims didn't - and manufacturers adopted to it by eventually phasing out rim brake models. Today, it would be a stupid business decision to invest into rim brakes - because there are too few people buying them. If there was more demand, you'd get tons of models right away. No demand, no models.

Same thing happened with models down-tube shifters.
Same thing happened with tubulars.
Same thing happened with tons of other things - customers stopped buying them, and manufacturers droped it eventually.
openwheelracing wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:04 am
We don't know exactly consumers "flocked" to disc.
Actually, we do. Goodle 5-7 year old news and reports - this is when manufacturers looked at sales data and realized disks brakes were selling like hotcakes, and sales of rim brakes were declining fast.

Ahh, TobinHatesYou did it for you already. Not sure why you called sales reports he listed "marketing". You keep using this word...I don't think it means what you think it means.

Locked