Ciamillo Brakes - Warning!

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

Post Reply
RichCH
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:38 am

by RichCH

I'm struggling to work out how to embed images in the body from Imgur.

Added as attachements instead
PXL_20210914_092054315.MP.jpg
PXL_20210914_092141441.MP.jpg
PXL_20210914_092148816.MP.jpg
PXL_20210914_092207357.MP.jpg

bernard34
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:51 pm

by bernard34

ghostinthemachine wrote:
Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:18 pm
There used to be a volume requirement on most of the ISO tests, so small builders didn't need to stump up thousands to prove their ~150 units a year were compliant.
I do not think so. Usually frame builders use 1 frame only, it should be the same for the brakes. The iSO norm is a good baseline to demonstrate the compliance of a product, even it is not enough for many part maker who push the parts to the limit.
If the brakes are not tested, then I am curious to know how they have been released to the market.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Beancouter
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

eurostar wrote:They can't be copies. It wouldn't make sense to copy something with almost no reputation and no sales.If they were copies Ted could get Aliexpress to take down the listing - they have to be seen to be against IP theft. The clone firms have all had to move to the likes of DHGate.
They are definitely not the same. If nothing more they use different bolts. - I think the carbon machining also looks different Plus different spring….

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

eurostar
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

Cobblers.

RichCH
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:38 am

by RichCH

I've been scrutinizing pictures of genuine Lekki 8s and comparing to the ones I've had delivered and I think machining wise - superficially (I obvously don't have access to the drawings with all the dimensions and tollerances etc), they seem identical, all the slots in the same place, shapes and contours match. Fasteners and hardware again is a match, all star headed bolts which are countersunk flat. I can't see any difference apart from the mounting nut which is black, however as the thread is a standard size, this is a commodity item so I wouldn't expect this to remain the same over a production run / ramp up anyway.

However Beancounter is correct in stating that the spring is different, the one shown on the Lekki web page and also on the Roadbike review Ted links to show a double countoured spring whereas the spring fitted to mine is straight.
42961556160_ca2dfce1f8_k.jpg
Without knowing why the double contour was chosen, I wouldn't like to speculate whether this would affect the return action greatly or the balance for that matter.

corkycalvin
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun May 16, 2021 2:03 am

by corkycalvin

Please give us an update when you dial these in. Are these the clones from AliExpress?

eurostar
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

:roll:

jackie
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:04 am

by jackie

RichCH wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:31 am
I've been scrutinizing pictures of genuine Lekki 8s and comparing to the ones I've had delivered and I think machining wise - superficially (I obvously don't have access to the drawings with all the dimensions and tollerances etc), they seem identical, all the slots in the same place, shapes and contours match. Fasteners and hardware again is a match, all star headed bolts which are countersunk flat. I can't see any difference apart from the mounting nut which is black, however as the thread is a standard size, this is a commodity item so I wouldn't expect this to remain the same over a production run / ramp up anyway.

However Beancounter is correct in stating that the spring is different, the one shown on the Lekki web page and also on the Roadbike review Ted links to show a double countoured spring whereas the spring fitted to mine is straight.

42961556160_ca2dfce1f8_k.jpg

Without knowing why the double contour was chosen, I wouldn't like to speculate whether this would affect the return action greatly or the balance for that matter.
mine isnt double contour and i got it from teb last year.. horror story. long story short.. i got the brake. some part didnt fit.. he promoise to send + tracking ........ ................................................................................................................................
and last month i use the email that he send out to people on his sales.. asking him. if he had send out as promise. and he said. yes he did. via regular mail.. .. anyway.. i have gone back to EE brake .. gave up on ted..

jackie
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:04 am

by jackie

double post

RichCH
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:38 am

by RichCH

Update:

I have now fitted the rear brake to my bike. Installation was relatively straight forward, however, I am struggling to see how these Aliexpress versions match what Ted specs the Lekki 8s as.
I have 3 main issues / concerns
1) Maximum spacing - with the micro cam wound fully in (max width), the pads only leave 1-1.5mm gap either side of the 26mm wide rims I have. These brakes should support up to 28mm rims, and that is simply not possible with any brake pads (I've got swiss stop black prince).
PXL_20210917_075011067.MP.jpg
To emphasise this point, the picture below shows the spacing of the Ali-Lekkis compared to some older Ciamillo (gravitas I think) which were already very narrow. Again the cam is wound in fully.
PXL_20210917_100016373.MP.jpg
PXL_20210917_100042749.MP.jpg
Why this creates an issue is that with the cam fully open and already on the width limit, ANY cable tension will start to close the caliper, meaning you cannot apply any pre tensioning. Therefore the pull ratios feel wrong. On the Gravitas (not the strongest brakes by any means) 20mm of cable pull results in around 12mm of caliper travel and whilst it is very similar on the Ali-Lekkis (11.5mm) there is also some flex in the carbon levers meaning not all the force is transmitted. Again this only effect the feel and not nescesarily the braking force applied.
Ultimetly I need to test the real braking power as the pull ratios are similar, I would expect similar results, but so far I'm not filled with confidence.

2) The second issue relates to the above. I'm running Sram red levers and when using these brakes, I can pull them to the bar. If all that force is transmitted, it should result in a massive braking pressure, (On other brakes I can maybe pull 2/3 of the stroke comfortably), however, until the lever is fully pulled, I can still turn the wheel by hand (it is difficult certainly, but it moves and I weigh 82kg, so stopping my mass will not be effective). As the cable pull / travel are similar this really illustrates how much flex there is in these brakes. Once again, I need a real world test, but so far not so good.

3) Weight and other cosmetic concerns - The weight is higher than Lekki's advertised weights, this could be from fixings, but certainly not a match. In total the pair come in at 137g and with pads. 167g. Cosmetically it seems that there are several variants / versions of the Lekkis out on the market , on the left arm for instance there are versions where there is an extra hardware point which seems connect to the central cam. Other versions such as reviewed by road bike review dont have this.
My AliLekkis don't have a lock ring where the cable adjuster is instead is riveted, this also seems to exist in various forms with the 'genuine' product.

I am now slightly concerned that these clones are actually clones of an early prototype perhaps, I will give them one ride to prove themselves and then they will likely be removed as confidence in brakes is kind of key for going fast (which I won't be on the proving ride).

eurostar
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

That's a pity. I suppose they were designed before wide rims became popular.

Karvalo
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:40 pm

by Karvalo

RichCH wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:29 am
I am now slightly concerned that these clones are actually clones of an early prototype perhaps, I will give them one ride to prove themselves and then they will likely be removed as confidence in brakes is kind of key for going fast (which I won't be on the proving ride).
TL:DR It's cheap shit made by forgers who don't give a crap because what the hell did you expect anyway? :noidea:

If you're under the impression that they should be mechanically identical to or made to the same standard as the product they are ripping off then I'm afraid you're being naive to the point of self delusion.

RichCH
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:38 am

by RichCH

[/quote]
TL:DR It's cheap shit made by forgers who don't give a crap because what the hell did you expect anyway? :noidea:

If you're under the impression that they should be mechanically identical to or made to the same standard as the product they are ripping off then I'm afraid you're being naive to the point of self delusion.
[/quote]

Ok then I'll tell you what, lets never try out anything new and then share feedback. Let just continue believing marketting BS and then making pointless comments on threads which add nothing at all to a discussion :thumbup:

glepore
Posts: 1327
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:42 pm
Location: Virginia USA

by glepore

FWIW, if you read the Lekki 8 thread, even the legit brakes had issues with flex/mush and cracking. Its simply a poor design.
THM Fibula's are among the best brakes I've used, and show the potential of carbon brakes, but they're much more expensive and much more robust. I think the thin plate idea is simply a no go.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

Butcher
Shop Owner
Posts: 1703
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am

by Butcher

I'm kinda lost. Are you saying that Chinese standards are poor? The way I look at it, The Chinese copies arrived on time. Certainly better than Ted's standards.

I'm ok and appreciate, that someone has the money to step up and become a guinea pig. We all like to arm chair quarterback but few actually take the leap and speak with experience. Thanks for the input. I'm certain it just proves what we all know, but now it's more of a fact than an assumption.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Post Reply