Ciamillo Brakes - Warning!

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eurostar
Posts: 465
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Location: London

by eurostar

Well I am leery. I'd never have bought them at list price. There's some risk but it's also an intriguing adventure. And I don't know how many have failed. I've never seen a firsthand account with a photo. So maybe the likelihood of failure is very, very low. Maybe correct setup reduces the chances further. And it might be fixable. A join made with industrial adhesive can be stronger than the adjacent CF. Reinforcement with CF tape and resin is another option. www.easycomposites.co.uk

On the other hand I might be buying junk, a pair rejected by the factory, well below Ted's QC standards. But if one fails on a descent, there's still the other one. I might not die.

by Weenie


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Butcher
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by Butcher

I flew hang gliders for 20 years and people with similar thoughts never lasted long in that sport.

I'm not an expert with carbon fiber, but the carbon fiber is the reason for it's strength, not the adhesive. Once the carbon is broken I cannot see the glued part being stronger than anything around it.

Good luck with your endevor and let your family and friends know to release the video if it should fail. It should be exciting to watch [yeah, I'm kinda morbid that way].

Brakes are kinda over rated anyway. A real weight weenie dumps that part first.

eurostar
Posts: 465
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Location: London

by eurostar

"I'm not an expert, but actually I know that everything the experts write is wrong." You should try brain surgery.

AJS914
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by AJS914

You might need brain surgery if the brakes fail at the wrong time.

I can't believe people would throw any money at Ciamillo brakes, let alone copies Aliexpress.

spartacus
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by spartacus

AJS914 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:32 pm
I can't believe people would throw any money at Ciamillo brakes, let alone copies Aliexpress.
FOR REAL... :lol: :unbelievable: :unbelievable: :unbelievable:

RichCH
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:38 am

by RichCH

Well for my side, I've studied failure modes and mechanisms in CFRP for the past 15 years in the aerospace industry, I've also written papers on how to image subsurface damage using near field techniques etc. And while I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on these brakes, nor am I likely to subject them to scanning, I will use the simple common sense approach of only fitting the rear brake for a few hundred Kms or so, once I'm happy with the performance, maybe then both.
As for the comments on ciamillo brake reliability, historically and justifyably Ted's business practices have been criticized, however until very recently I've never seen anything on the quality of his engineering.

eurostar
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

AJS914 wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:32 pm
let alone copies Aliexpress.
No one seriously believes they're copies. That's why they're ordering them. We covered this upthread.

eurostar
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

RichCH wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:58 pm
the quality of his engineering.
He crossed the Atlantic in a CF submarine which he designed and built. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... submarine/

glepore
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by glepore

RichCH wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:58 pm
Well for my side, I've studied failure modes and mechanisms in CFRP for the past 15 years in the aerospace industry, I've also written papers on how to image subsurface damage using near field techniques etc. And while I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on these brakes, nor am I likely to subject them to scanning, I will use the simple common sense approach of only fitting the rear brake for a few hundred Kms or so, once I'm happy with the performance, maybe then both.
As for the comments on ciamillo brake reliability, historically and justifyably Ted's business practices have been criticized, however until very recently I've never seen anything on the quality of his engineering.
Well, yes, but the rear brake is subjected to maybe 1/3 the load of the front.

I've used the Costelo time-like ti pedals for years w/ no issues, and the copied Bontrager integrated bars etc.I ride on Lightweights that I've repaired myself. My concern here isn't with the MIC aspect, its the fact that the actual item was anecdotaly known to fail.
But by all means, go for it. Your choice. And let us know how they work. I like the last iteration of the Ciamillo brakes prior to Lekki, and had an order in for a set when he tanked. If these work and are compatible with various rim widths, they might be an actual find.
Ted, otoh...well, I respect him for trying, but not for his radio silence when things tank.
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.8) ; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record

joejack951
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by joejack951

RichCH wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:58 pm
Well for my side, I've studied failure modes and mechanisms in CFRP for the past 15 years in the aerospace industry, I've also written papers on how to image subsurface damage using near field techniques etc. And while I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on these brakes, nor am I likely to subject them to scanning, I will use the simple common sense approach of only fitting the rear brake for a few hundred Kms or so, once I'm happy with the performance, maybe then both.
As for the comments on ciamillo brake reliability, historically and justifyably Ted's business practices have been criticized, however until very recently I've never seen anything on the quality of his engineering.
I was heavily criticized here for wanting to repair a damaged rear carbon fiber rim (wheel still true and ride-able but braking wasn't smooth over the partially cracked area). You'd have thought I was trying to fly a plane with a known bad engine or something. Yet, we see all the time big name carbon fiber and aluminum parts breaking in places that could cause a lot more extensive injury to the cyclist when they fail than a rear rim (or rear brake). Think fork steerer, handlebars, cranks.

Everyone has their own tolerance for risk. Just bring up helmets on a cycling forum if you want proof of that! :mrgreen:

spartacus
Posts: 1048
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:53 pm

by spartacus

I'm not saying the design itself is bad, I haven't done FEA on the brakes. But looking at them, the reliability will come down to build quality. Materials, tolerances, hardware, proper assembly with threadlocker etc... If y'all are comfortable with not knowing who assembled these or how good of a job they did, and what possible shortcuts may have been taken with materials or hardware, then by all means pay $190 for brakes from China that were normally $700 or something and hope for the best. If saving 150g is really worth putting your life in the hands of a Chinese factory wage slave assembling a precision caliper brake designed by a known scammer then that's a personal decision but make sure to warn anyone riding down a hill near you to keep a good distance in case you can't stop.

eurostar
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

It's not worth it. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that it is. It's just a fun hobby and a leap into the unknown.

My expectations are very low: missing fasteners, cheap heavy fasteners which ruin the weight claims, no threadlocker, poor finish of the carbon parts...and that's just the unboxing. It's rather obvious that Ted's in dispute with his supplier. Plenty of ugliness behind the scenes. The manufacturer may not have much experience with thin carbon parts which are expected to survive high loads for several years. It's not like making a bottle cage or some forks.

I'm no engineer, but looking at the Lekkis I don't see any shapes with inherent strength, like triangles or tubes. What's stopping the carbon parts from bending and twisting? Is everything dependent on the female parts of the fasteners being perfectly anchored, in such a way that the edges of the holes in the carbon are never abraded or chipped? What do the engineers here think?

Image

As for the risk to my life, well, I crashed a glider when I was 16 and drunk. I raced motorbikes. Some low level parascending next to railings and trees. Stage four cancer. And I raced 200 people down Alpe d'Huez, set off last with one foot not clipped in, and beat them all by several minutes. Maybe I was the only one who thought it was a race. Plus some scares when I was diving on my own. I'm going to give these Lekkis some serious abuse before I do any high speed stuff.

spartacus
Posts: 1048
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by spartacus

The strength to resist braking force (the direction of the spinning wheel not clamping) is coming from the hardware and standoffs between the two plates, making the whole thing act as if it is a wider structure than just the plates themselves. From what others have said the supposed breaking is related to the aluminum piece the pad holder bolts to though.

Like I said I'm not sure that the design is inherently bad but all it could take is one loose piece of hardware for them to fail catastrophically. So that would be my real concern, that they're more than strong enough when they are new but over time things wear out or work loose then cause an unexpected failure someday.

I am a mechanical engineer. I am not a composites expert - that said - I don't think the use of carbon fiber is he most concerning thing going on here, it's just the execution of the whole thing.

eurostar
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by eurostar

I wonder if the reviewers from 2018 put any miles on them?

by Weenie


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dj97223
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by dj97223

eurostar wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:57 pm
RichCH wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:58 pm
the quality of his engineering.
He crossed the Atlantic in a CF submarine which he designed and built. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... submarine/
Hmmm, he "planned" to do so, but apparently it never happened.

"All this aside, what about the Atlantic thing? Well not much else has been said about the venture. Maybe it sank like the first. Maybe Ciamillo sold the designs. Whatever happened to it, it was able to spark a whole new class and design of personal emission-free submersibles."

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a-te ... 45745.html
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

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