Rumors Next Generation Campagnolo Road?

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neeb
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by neeb

flying wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:57 am
I don't think greater physical is relevant but simple as in KISS is :thumbup:

I mean the bicycle is/was an amazing piece of transportation in its simple almost foolproof configuration
So lets add electronic micro switches, servo's, batteries, wires, remote switches & for what?
To simplify an utterly simple process of shifting?

About greater physical interaction....I mean after all we are supposedly exercising :noidea:
We could ride a couch & get even less physical than electronic but in any case..

About the snapping several? rear mech cables I am really amazed
in 35+ years of riding I have snapped zero rear derailleur cables...zero brakes cables ...& just one front derailleur cable...
which was totally my own fault as I had frayed it when doing a tension adjust & never replaced it
I get where you're coming from in terms of the attraction of the "simplicity" of a bicycle as a fully mechanical device, but there are few of us who ride for sport who don't use bike computers, power meters, lights, etc. Electric gears are no different.

In terms of physicality - I don't know about you, but I don't ride my bike to execercise my fingers and I find the process of having to do that conflicts with, rather than compliments, the physicality of riding. Albeit in a very minor way of course.

I've snapped several rear mech cables over the years - I've never been able to find out why this happens to some people and not others, but it keeps happening to me. I've never snapped a brake cable because the design of brake cables is different, for saftey reasons (they are thicker and woven in a different way). It always starts with fraying inside the lever or (less often) at the BB adaptor. This has happened to me on different bikes with different ergo levers, and not with ancient cables that haven't been maintained. I do change gears a lot when I'm riding, maybe that explains it, or maybe it's climate, or rear mech spring tension.. who knows?

Mechanical gears foolproof, electric otherwise? In what sense? Electric are agruably easier to fit and require less maintenance and ongoing adjustment. OK, the electronics themselves may be complex, but doubtless the process of manufacturing wires and weaving cables is too. Neither of these is something the user has to concern themselves with.

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Vespasianus
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by Vespasianus

Miller wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:00 pm
As a newish user of Ekar I think it's about the best mechanical shifting I've ever used. I'd agree that in practical terms, electronic Ekar would bring little to the party. However it's clear that "it's electronic!" has shop-floor appeal.
This I agree with. I did a race yesterday in rain, absolute mud and crap. One thing I did not have an issue with was the shifting, which worked perfectly fine.
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gwerziou
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by gwerziou

I'm super stoked about the new WRL shifters. I wonder what the derailleurs look like; any sightings yet? My cash flow is pretty good, I just might give this new setup a go. Perhaps the new cassette etc will work well with my Chorus crankset. The idea of a ultra-low-maintenance wireless setup that uses mineral oil for the brakes has always been so appealing to me, like countless others I guess.
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flying
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by flying

neeb wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:03 pm

I get where you're coming from in terms of the attraction of the "simplicity" of a bicycle as a fully mechanical device, but there are few of us who ride for sport who don't use bike computers, power meters, lights, etc. Electric gears are no different.

In terms of physicality - I don't know about you, but I don't ride my bike to execercise my fingers and I find the process of having to do that conflicts with, rather than compliments, the physicality of riding. Albeit in a very minor way of course.

I've snapped several rear mech cables over the years - I've never been able to find out why this happens to some people and not others, but it keeps happening to me. I've never snapped a brake cable because the design of brake cables is different, for saftey reasons (they are thicker and woven in a different way). It always starts with fraying inside the lever or (less often) at the BB adaptor. This has happened to me on different bikes with different ergo levers, and not with ancient cables that haven't been maintained. I do change gears a lot when I'm riding, maybe that explains it, or maybe it's climate, or rear mech spring tension.. who knows?

Mechanical gears foolproof, electric otherwise? In what sense? Electric are agruably easier to fit and require less maintenance and ongoing adjustment. OK, the electronics themselves may be complex, but doubtless the process of manufacturing wires and weaving cables is too. Neither of these is something the user has to concern themselves with.
At the end of the day i guess it is good everyone has choices & can decide how they want/need to roll.

I have to admit I never thought of shifting a bike as finger exercise but then again as folks age it might not be a bad idea
About cables as I said that is really surprising/odd to snap/fray them

About foolproof true nothing us but anyone who has dabbled in RC electronic knows that micro switches & especially servos have a limited lifespan
how long for these? I do not know & I guess we will all find out eventually

But lastly electric usage/batteries themselves....really it is somewhat sad that cycling once could actually be considered eco friendly. Now for many it is just another usage of electricity to charge & later adding to spent batteries heaps...But hey I'm not Greta Thunberg & use a computer :lol:

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neeb
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by neeb

I was thinking about it on my ride today. It's the changing down (i.e. to a larger sprocket) where electronic makes a difference, where you'd be pushing against the rear mech spring with mechanical.

If I'm in the drops with EPS and I want to change down I just reach out my index finger and touch the shift lever. With mechanical I'd sometimes use two fingers, and you need to move the lever some distance with moderate force. Easy enough of course, but it requires a little more dexterity in some situations where you want to maintain as secure a grip on the bars as possible, e.g. when cornering. Similarly when climbing out of the saddle on the hoods, with EPS I'd use my middle finger to touch the shift lever. With mechanical the action almost requires a shift of weight in your grip as you reach down with one or two fingers to push the lever across, espeacially if changing several sprockets at the same time.

Nickldn
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by Nickldn

neeb wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:26 pm
If I'm in the drops with EPS and I want to change down I just reach out my index finger and touch the shift lever. With mechanical I'd sometimes use two fingers, and you need to move the lever some distance with moderate force. Easy enough of course, but it requires a little more dexterity in some situations where you want to maintain as secure a grip on the bars as possible, e.g. when cornering.
Was riding Chorus 12s mechanical today with Gore long finger gloves and can't shift up with thumb shifters when in drops. This is doable in short gloves, but impossible in long gloves due to slippery coating at end of index finger and thumb for phone screen use. A fairly minor annoyance, but definitely an area where Campy's stiff mechanical shifting action is a pain. Finger just slips off before enough force can be applied to the lever. Even worse when raining.

Really easy shifting is an area where electronic excels, it just gets out of the way and allows you to focus on more important things....I guess this is one of the reasons racers prefer it.
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flying
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by flying

Nickldn wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:53 pm
Was riding Chorus 12s mechanical today with Gore long finger gloves and can't shift up with thumb shifters when in drops.
The one thing I really like about Potenza also some others like Centaur etc is the drooped (like EPS) thumb levers but in a mechanical
They make it easy to do what your describing & I do with long finger gloves, I guess due to angle your more pushing inwards than downwards & it is just easier

The other higher end mechanical campy all had that 90 degree thumb lever I mean yeah they can dump more gears per click but I can rapid fire
off 3-4 no problem in a crazy short time on the drooped thumb lever
Last edited by flying on Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flying
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by flying

neeb wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:26 pm
I was thinking about it on my ride today. It's the changing down (i.e. to a larger sprocket) where electronic makes a difference, where you'd be pushing against the rear mech spring with mechanical.

If I'm in the drops with EPS and I want to change down I just reach out my index finger and touch the shift lever. With mechanical I'd sometimes use two fingers, and you need to move the lever some distance with moderate force. Easy enough of course, but it requires a little more dexterity in some situations where you want to maintain as secure a grip on the bars as possible, e.g. when cornering. Similarly when climbing out of the saddle on the hoods, with EPS I'd use my middle finger to touch the shift lever. With mechanical the action almost requires a shift of weight in your grip as you reach down with one or two fingers to push the lever across, espeacially if changing several sprockets at the same time.
I have a 2nd bike I keep in another country where we vacation yearly. I have Shimano Ultegra on that because that is what is available there for parts etc.
What you describe I really notice when i come home & back to Campy

Although we do like the Campy Tactile feel Shimano is way easier/softer. I sometimes laugh thinking this is a girly group when ever I first get there & use Shimano again hahah :wink:

Nickldn
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by Nickldn

flying wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:32 pm
Although we do like the Campy Tactile feel Shimano is way easier/softer. I sometimes laugh thinking this is a girly group when ever I first get there & use Shimano again hahah :wink:
Yes this is true. Shimano shifting is soft and low effort. It's also dull.

My other half hates Campy shifting and generally refuses to that bike. OTOH she loves her mechanical Ultegra as long as it's perfectly adjusted. Ultraglide shift ramps on the cassette and a very easy shift action are a benefit for most riders. I just find it boring.

The hard core prefer Campy shifting for its character.....
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg

Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg

SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress

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neeb
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by neeb

I've never used Di2. How does EPS compare with it?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

neeb wrote:I've never used Di2. How does EPS compare with it?
I used to have EPS V3 Super Record on my road bike. When I built my gravel bike up I chose to try Di2. EPS was good, but Di2 was much better for me. The 9100 levers are no less tactile. My road bike is now built with Dura Ace 9200. The only change I have made is to reverse the lever set up so now the large lever shifts the chain to larger sprockets.

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neeb
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by neeb

What is it you find better about Di2?

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

neeb wrote:What is it you find better about Di2?
  • Front shifting is cleaner
    Rear shifting is at least as quick and multi shifts are fine too.
    Ability to have satellite shifters
    Easier to fit
    Easier to maintain with app

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ultimobici
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by ultimobici

Oh and it's cheaper.

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Dov
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by Dov

ultimobici wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:51 pm
Oh and it's cheaper.
Only by a couple of grand.
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