Rumors Next Generation Campagnolo Road?

[Lina]

There has to be electronic outside of SR and pretty soon if they wish to sell anything but SR. If 105 Di2 comes it will mean most frames out there will not even support mechanical shifting after their next update. Or if they support it will be an afterthought and/or the cable runs will be awful, you can already see this happening. So they either need to bring electronic down the line or axe everything that isn't SR. The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available. And you won't be able to buy most of the frames that support mechanical shifting as a frameset.

[jlok]

There has to be electronic outside of SR and pretty soon if they wish to sell anything but SR. If 105 Di2 comes it will mean most frames out there will not even support mechanical shifting after their next update. Or if they support it will be an afterthought and/or the cable runs will be awful, you can already see this happening. So they either need to bring electronic down the line or axe everything that isn't SR. The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available. And you won't be able to buy most of the frames that support mechanical shifting as a frameset.

Less thoughtful framesets, less time to design and less cost to produce, but sold more expensively. Absurd demand generation/shifting tricks. Kudos to the marketing dept of the involved parties.

Don't get me wrong. I like and use electronic shifting but I still see the value of mechanical shifting, and will build use it when I buy the next custom bike with rim brake. I just take aim at how the companies are shaping the demand.

[ultimobici]

Or they might not care....... they do their own thing.

I like that they don't follow formulaic product cycles.....but that's just me

I think there will be Chorus EPS in the future. 100%
Imagine 105 Di2, Force wireless... with the modern integration, frame manufacturers wont offer mechanical frames in the near future.
If Campa wont offer a lower priced electronic groupset they will disappear from the market. SR EPS is just too expensive for "normal" roadbikes

But Campy isn't focusing on OEM market. Remember both Shimano and Sram sold majority of Ultegra/105 Force/Rival to bike manufacturers while Campy sold almost nothing. Campy just can't compete with Shimano/Sram in OEM pricing.

You wont able to upgrade or build your bike from scratch withcampagnolo mechanical if there are not mechanical ready framesets to buy

There will always be plenty of options available for mechanical compatible frames, just as there will be for rim brakes. Campag sell plenty of Chorus & Ekar.

Just as the prediction that smartwatches would kill off mechanics watches was wrong, so is the prediction that electronic will kill off mechanical.


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[moock]

There has to be electronic outside of SR and pretty soon if they wish to sell anything but SR. If 105 Di2 comes it will mean most frames out there will not even support mechanical shifting after their next update. Or if they support it will be an afterthought and/or the cable runs will be awful, you can already see this happening. So they either need to bring electronic down the line or axe everything that isn't SR. The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available. And you won't be able to buy most of the frames that support mechanical shifting as a frameset.

excactly what i meant

[usr]

The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available.

So true. The "electronic only sells on SR level" thing will completely invert: the occasional custom frame or Chromovelato special would happily go to SR level to get mechanical, but on lower levels mechanical is disappearing completely.

[Lina]

There has to be electronic outside of SR and pretty soon if they wish to sell anything but SR. If 105 Di2 comes it will mean most frames out there will not even support mechanical shifting after their next update. Or if they support it will be an afterthought and/or the cable runs will be awful, you can already see this happening. So they either need to bring electronic down the line or axe everything that isn't SR. The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available. And you won't be able to buy most of the frames that support mechanical shifting as a frameset.

Less thoughtful framesets, less time to design and less cost to produce, but sold more expensively. Absurd demand generation/shifting tricks. Kudos to the marketing dept of the involved parties.

Don't get me wrong. I like and use electronic shifting but I still see the value of mechanical shifting, and will build use it when I buy the next custom bike with rim brake. I just take aim at how the companies are shaping the demand.

People demand full internal routing. That means the mechanical shifting can't be as good and even if it's possible it means the cable runs are going to be awful to replace. So even if you could in theory make them with mechanical it's not a good idea. The working option is to have a downtube opening where you can install Di2 unit or mechanical grommets. But those are disappearing because everyone is mounting the Di2 units to handlebars. There will always be custom offering for rim brake and mechanical shifting. But that's just it. Custom and the market there is SR. Reality is that mechanical is dying on everything else but custom and cheapest you can find segments.

If there is Di2 105 mechanical is dead in the road bike market for most customers. That means it doesn't make any sense to spend money on coming up with mechanical routing to your frame.

The groupset market for custom frames that support mechanical shifting isn't large enough to justify keeping anything but SR available.

So true. The "electronic only sells on SR level" thing will completely invert: the occasional custom frame or Chromovelato special would happily go to SR level to get mechanical, but on lower levels mechanical is disappearing completely.

Exactly. There will be demand for mechanical SR for far longer than there is for Chorus or Record. Someone buying a custom frame with mechanical support is going to be most likely looking at SR.

There will always be plenty of options available for mechanical compatible frames, just as there will be for rim brakes. Campag sell plenty of Chorus & Ekar.

Just as the prediction that smartwatches would kill off mechanics watches was wrong, so is the prediction that electronic will kill off mechanical.

You're so wrong on all fronts. First of all bikes and watches are nothing alike. Watches are essentially jewelry. That means it doesn't matter if it's functionally inferior as long as it looks good and gives you prestige. Quartz watches are superior to mechanicals in pretty much every way possible but they didn't replace mechanicals exactly for the same reason as smart watches didn't. And anyone that claimed smart watches will kill mechanicals should be laughed at. Most people buy bikes to use them as sporting equipment. That means that functionality does matter. It's why STIs, carbon, and electronic shifting for example took over. If bikes were fashion accessories we'd all still be buying custom made steel with downtube shifters, rim brakes, and mechanical shifting. And there's a market for that segment also. But it's extremely niche, and SR mechanical is for that market.

They may still sell plenty of Chorus but what about in couple of years when large majority of the frames that are available as framesets no longer support mechanical shifting. Once Di2 105 is reality most manufacturers don't have to worry about mechanical shifting at all in their road bike line up save for some aluminium models that are sold with below 105 components. If they don't plan on selling any full bikes with mechanical shifting why the hell would they spend time and money on designing a frame that can use mechanical shifting?

5 years ago people would've called you crazy for saying you'd be hard pressed to find new frames that take rim brakes or don't have fully internal cable routing. How much are you willing to bet the same doesn't happen to mechanical shifting? Especially when the process is already underway and many of the current top tier frames are electronic only.

[jlok]

Yeah, just realize that people are rich enough to go all in on electronic shifting, maybe. And I'm not sure why people demand electronic shifting more than mechanical. Who creates these demand? Or is it in-born in people's mind when the first road bike they see is electronic shifting?

Maybe time for me to stock up the low-tier mechanical stuffs as I probably won't go full SR, maybe only the cassette.

[Lina]

No one is saying all mechanical is dying, it's dying in the context of Campy offerings outside of niche applications where SR serves the purpose. There will always be market for cheap Sora or Tiagra bikes. But lets be honest. But those bikes don't share frames with the more expensive ones. Just because your cheapest aluminium offering comes with mechanical shifting doesn't mean it makes any sense to design your more expensive frames with that in mind when you're planning on selling zero (0) of them with mechanical shifting. The market for mechanical Chorus and Record is dying fast. The market for mechanical gearing will be on the cheap bikes or custom. Neither of which are the market for either Chorus or Record. There is absolutely no one that will buy a bike with Sora or Tiagra and replace the groupset with something that's more expensive than the entire bike. And the custom market is usually money is no object and so the only choice from the start is SR.

You have to be blind if you don't see the mid segment mechanical on its death throes.

[patchandscruff]

Quartz watches are superior to mechanicals in pretty much every way possible

You've clearly never owned a Grand Seiko Spring Drive then.

[usr]

Yeah, just realize that people are rich enough to go all in on electronic shifting, maybe.

Why do you assume that electronic must be more expensive? There has also been a time when typewriters were cheaper than dot matrix printers, now you can get a lightning fast color inkjet with four-digit DPI resolution for a fraction of the price of a typewriter. Yes, an electronic Tiagra won't come with bragging rights built in like the first DA Di2 did.

[Lina]

Quartz watches are superior to mechanicals in pretty much every way possible

You've clearly never owned a Grand Seiko Spring Drive then.

Yes, we made this mechanical watch better by including a quartz watch inside it to make it match quartz watches in accuracy. And it still can't do what quartz watches can do.

[jlok]

Yeah, just realize that people are rich enough to go all in on electronic shifting, maybe.

Why do you assume that electronic must be more expensive? There has also been a time when typewriters were cheaper than dot matrix printers, now you can get a lightning fast color inkjet with four-digit DPI resolution for a fraction of the price of a typewriter. Yes, an electronic Tiagra won't come with bragging rights built in like the first DA Di2 did.

Ha, OK, I have no more to say if that's truly what people demand, not directed by the mfg. I love this world.

[velocipedeimp]

I sell a lot of Campy. This year so far 28 bikes have been Campagnolo equipped, usually with Campy wheels. Of those 28, only 3 have been electric. Everything else has been majority Chorus 12 mechanical (rim and disc) and Ekar. Mechancial is not going to go away. And Campy is not going to make an electric Chrous group. I wish they were but they've said no every time myself and others have asked. The sales numbers are not there to justify it. That's partly their own doing, yes, but they know what they make, sells. Why would they put themselves in a position to sit on product? They literally sell everything they make right now. The only things they sat on, Athena, Chorus and Record 11 EPS. Which is why you can still find tons of it online.

I make custom bikes, whether our brand or others that we import or offer in the shop. Majority of them are mechanical. And to the comment of frames won't allow mechanical, sure they will. Look at Time, Wilier, Cinelli, Allied and numerous others who offer a cable guide of some sort that has multiple routing/stop options to use mechanical or electric component routing. Campagnolo feels that their mechanical is the best shifting cable accuated shifting in the world. If Shimano and SRAM want to leave that market, Campy will take the money with Chorus 12.

Campy is not getting rid of mechanical, they are not making a lower priced EPS group.

[Lina]

So because they weren't selling cheaper electronic groupsets a decade ago is the reason why it wouldn't sell now? And no, just because you can still find outdated groupsets online doesn't mean that a current offering wouldn't sell.

Yes, there are still frames that work with mechanical. But the number is constantly smaller. And it's going to become a lot smaller when Di2 105 is released. There were also tons of rim brake options two years ago. Look at where we are now, yeah they aren't completely gone but your choice is severely limited. The same will happen to mechanical shifting. If Shimano and SRAM leave the mechanical medium to high level groupset market it means that market is practically dead within couple of years. It doesn't mean Campy comes swooping in and collecting all that market. 105 and Chorus aren't even in the same market to begin with.

[Dov]

It's worthy of comment and discussion that 'the market' is wholesale moving to electronic shifting without a moments consideration as to whether electronic shifting represents much of an improvement in shifting. Which it does.... But £/$/€ 1000 worth of improvemnt? Don't think so.

And whilst this remains true, I think there will always be a large segement of cyclists that value a good cost/function relationship over the latest boytoy gadgets. The same is true of disc brakes IMO.