Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
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joejack951
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by joejack951 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:25 pm
Steve Curtis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:13 pm
If that screw wasn't deal in line it would piss me off looking at that every ride.
As I was reviewing my picture, I had the same thought!
The solution could be to install the screw as a reference when bonding the insert into the steerer. Small adjustments to the final angle (for the truly OCD) could be made by shimming under the screw head with tape. It's only acting as a plug for the threads so maybe I should make a rubber plug like I use on my innicycle headset. The screw was cheap, readily available, easy to install/remove, and lightweight so I went with it but this discussion makes me realize that it is not ideal.
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Dr.Dos
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by Dr.Dos on Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:26 pm
StanK wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:45 pm
Yes, very nice, very simple, clean lines, thin, flat ... I like it. And very light, but lightness comes with a price.
The first customer review on that page
says a lot. Aluminum screw is not a good enough solution in that place.
Yes, it says: Something is wrong with the customer's bike. Because it should take one or two Newtonmeters to preload a headset - not more. I must have used eight or nine of that type on my bikes without any issue. I tend to grease all bolts (or loctite them in place) though.
P.S. This must be the first time on WW where aluminum bolts at a 100% safe place are considered a problem.
P.P.S. We have a saying here, it goes: "Wenn der Bauer nicht schwimmen kann, ist die Badehose schuld", if the farmer can't swim, it's gotta be the trunk's fault
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StanK
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by StanK on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:13 am
There are a few of them out there who mentioned it, actually. Considering it’s a part that probably not a lot of them bought, we’re talking about a pretty high percentage of defective bikes then.
Of course, if you just put the screw on, tighten it once and you don’t need it anymore, there probably won’t be any problem. But sometimes you have to play a little more with stem, or change it few times, then the situation can be a little bit different.
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joejack951
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by joejack951 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:57 am
Dr.Dos wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:26 pm
Yes, it says: Something is wrong with the customer's bike. Because it should take one or two Newtonmeters to preload a headset - not more.
That’s very optimistic. For many cartridge bearing headsets, it take far more torque than that to achieve proper preload. You may remove the play initially with only a small amount of preload, but in my experience, the play comes back quickly especially with disc brakes in the mix. The only way to get and keep the bearings tight is to set them almost to the point of binding when preloading. Works like a charm for me and I wouldn’t want to do it with an aluminum screw.
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C36
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by C36 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:11 pm
Just had a Chris King documentation on my tool box and they require less than 2N.m of preload (15lb.in max, on top of my head that's less than 2). I tried to increase to 3 and you can already feel the balls nor running smoothly, at 4N.m you feel the balls rubbing inside the brearing tracks
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Nickldn
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by Nickldn on Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:39 pm
joejack951 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:57 am
Dr.Dos wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:26 pm
Yes, it says: Something is wrong with the customer's bike. Because it should take one or two Newtonmeters to preload a headset - not more.
That’s very optimistic. For many cartridge bearing headsets, it take far more torque than that to achieve proper preload. You may remove the play initially with only a small amount of preload, but in my experience, the play comes back quickly especially with disc brakes in the mix. The only way to get and keep the bearings tight is to set them almost to the point of binding when preloading. Works like a charm for me and I wouldn’t want to do it with an aluminum screw.
Nothing to stop you using a normal steel screw to set the preload, tighten the stem bolts and then replace the steel screw with a light aluminium screw tightened to 1nm.
I would not dream of using an aluminium screw to set my preload, that would be a waste of a good bike part!
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
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Dr.Dos
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by Dr.Dos on Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:42 am
C36 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:11 pm
Just had a Chris King documentation on my tool box and they require less than 2N.m of preload (15lb.in max, on top of my head that's less than 2). I tried to increase to 3 and you can already feel the balls nor running smoothly, at 4N.m you feel the balls rubbing inside the brearing tracks
I just rechecked. CK recommennds 5-16 lb./in., Dia-Compe 8-15 lb./in. (0.7-1.7 Nm), Cane Creek says < 1 Nm.
So again and concluding, if you have to overtighten your headset, there is something wrong with the bike. See Factor Ostro where the ISN mechs destroyed the fork because they did not appear to care.
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Raimundo
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by Raimundo on Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:11 am
For those that like plain caps, here's the one i use on the main bike 1 1/4":
And it has some old school WW trick on it (Dremel). The underside has a deeper groove to allow an extra milimeter of steerer tube up the clamping area, and still stay flush.
I could have gone with a nylon or aluminium bolt, but the Ti bolt is very bling and matches the rest of the bolts
I do use a different (more robust) top cap to set the pre-load.
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Attachments
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- completely flush...
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- 1 1/4"
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BenScott144
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by BenScott144 on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:15 pm
Raimundo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:11 am
For those that like plain caps, here's the one i use on the main bike 1 1/4":
And it has some old school WW trick on it (Dremel). The underside has a deeper groove to allow an extra milimeter of steerer tube up the clamping area, and still stay flush.
I could have gone with a nylon or aluminium bolt, but the Ti bolt is very bling and matches the rest of the bolts
I do use a different (more robust) top cap to set the pre-load.
Ooh very nice.
I just swapped the bolt on my top cap for plain Ti. I think maybe it's too bright! Time to find a black ally bolt just to use once the headset is tight
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Raimundo
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by Raimundo on Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:28 pm
BenScott144 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:15 pm
Raimundo wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:11 am
For those that like plain caps, here's the one i use on the main bike 1 1/4":
And it has some old school WW trick on it (Dremel). The underside has a deeper groove to allow an extra milimeter of steerer tube up the clamping area, and still stay flush.
I could have gone with a nylon or aluminium bolt, but the Ti bolt is very bling and matches the rest of the bolts
I do use a different (more robust) top cap to set the pre-load.
Ooh very nice.
I just swapped the bolt on my top cap for plain Ti. I think maybe it's too bright! Time to find a black ally bolt just to use once the headset is tight
Thanks!
I sometimes give some bolts the "Sharpie treatment", but usually they are not as exposed as a top cap bolt, and the end result is not homogeneous, but hey, at least they are not shiny anymore and you can do it without tools and in a couple of seconds...
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joejack951
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by joejack951 on Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:09 pm
Dr.Dos wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:42 am
C36 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:11 pm
Just had a Chris King documentation on my tool box and they require less than 2N.m of preload (15lb.in max, on top of my head that's less than 2). I tried to increase to 3 and you can already feel the balls nor running smoothly, at 4N.m you feel the balls rubbing inside the brearing tracks
I just rechecked. CK recommennds 5-16 lb./in., Dia-Compe 8-15 lb./in. (0.7-1.7 Nm), Cane Creek says < 1 Nm.
So again and concluding, if you have to overtighten your headset, there is something wrong with the bike. See Factor Ostro where the ISN mechs destroyed the fork because they did not appear to care.
While I will always takes a manufacturer's recommendation into consideration, the most important thing is that the play is gone and that the play doesn't come back. With cartridge bearings, I have always found that to require more than a tiny bit of torque (in contrast to loose ball headsets which barely require any preload).
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corky
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Sojodave
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