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Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:27 pm
by MrCurrieinahurry
Well he would have paid a lot of Dosh for a custom frame and could have had it built without tbr need for spacers. Unless he was hoping the back issue would get sorted then remove the spacers....



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Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 pm
by wheelsONfire
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:35 am
There are a few "relaxed race" type bikes like the Caledonia.

Here are some roughly "56cm" bikes.
Cervelo S-Series/R-Series: 580mm stack, 387mm reach
Colnago C64 Sloping: 583mm stack, 385mm reach
Pinarello Prince: 586mm stack, 388mm reach
Time Alpe d'Huez: 581mm stack, 392mm reach
Open Min.D: 585mm stack, 385mm reach
Parlee Altum: 587mm stack, 381mm reach

et cetera

A traditional 56cm race frame typically has 560-565mm stack and 388-393mm reach...or thereabouts.
My last bike had same stack as my current, but 14mm longer reach. I didn't like it, basically why i went for the new model.
For the price of a Colnago, you can go full custom instead.
But sure, there are off the shelf bikes even if there's very few of them.

What i ment really, is that many buy a race bike and set it up like an Endurance bike.

That begs the question, is it due to looks of the race bike, or is it because they want the feel of a race bike?
With shorter reach you can have a longer cockpit which make the bike feel different.

Years ago many bike fitters worked almost always with some brand of custom builder(s).
Ax made the Race version as it was more inline of what most customers fit best on.
This based on totally objective results / data. Well, each to his own.
Gather info from lots of sources is a good idea. I have during 15 years.
These days i think many looking for a new ride totally buys into what the retailer say.
That or what they see on Eurosport or similar.

I have also done many mistakes based on listening to those who want to sell.
Hopefully not again!

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 pm
by Weenie

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Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:47 pm
by FlatlandClimber
Really looking forward for the 2022 Factor Slick TT bike to be released.
It seems to be the very first production TT bike, to really embrace the new UCI regulations.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:36 pm
by TobinHatesYou
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 pm

That begs the question, is it due to looks of the race bike, or is it because they want the feel of a race bike?
With shorter reach you can have a longer cockpit which make the bike feel different.

I would assume vanity takes priority. After all someone with a 60deg back angle isn't exactly going to be carving around switchbacks.

Personally I find the handling differences between bikes to be pretty minimal. In fact I'd say some endurance bikes are better suited to road racing in some ways... Endurance bikes with 75-80mm of BB drop combined with narrower tires potentially lowers your center of mass while cornering.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:48 pm
by pmprego
@wheelsONfire just my 2cents. I think people would be okay with something "just like what a pro rides but with a better geometry". Most of the times the endurance bikes are heavier and with components that distances themselves to what a pro rider uses. I think that's what kills it.

For instance, a trek domane is crazy heavy. The spesh roubaix is full of suspension mechanism that adds heights but also sreams "I'm old and I need something to make the road smooth or my back will kill me".

Even the Aethos which apparently was NOT made for the racer outthere has a geometry which is the same as the sl7.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 am
by wheelsONfire
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:36 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 pm

That begs the question, is it due to looks of the race bike, or is it because they want the feel of a race bike?
With shorter reach you can have a longer cockpit which make the bike feel different.

I would assume vanity takes priority. After all someone with a 60deg back angle isn't exactly going to be carving around switchbacks.

Personally I find the handling differences between bikes to be pretty minimal. In fact I'd say some endurance bikes are better suited to road racing in some ways... Endurance bikes with 75-80mm of BB drop combined with narrower tires potentially lowers your center of mass while cornering.
Well, i have a ti bike and it is off duty. I don't like the geometry which i was persuaded to buy due to my lenght etc.
Should never have listened to that because it's custom.
It's heavy and it doesn't ride nearly aswell as my Ax bike.
I also have an UP and it weights alot. I can set it up so i have same position as my Ax bike. But they are very far off when it comes to ride feel and handling.

Fact is, the Ax bike is so close to what i would order if i went custom so there is no use for me to buy custom.
I really don't care much for brand name at all. I just want fit, handling and comfort. Setting up my Foil and it was riding nervous and had believe it or not, tendency to wobble. So my conclusion from all bikes i have owned, just because you can fit yourself to different sizes they don't ride same or handle same.
For sure they don't feel the same. I wouldn't say this if it was BS, what would the meaning be?

I can also love cool looking bikes, but i don't buy them if i see that i would have to do bad choices with regards to handling.
These days i have come to the point when i try saddles and handlebars just because of the feel of it. I have preferences for bar shape and saddle shape i look for.
Going custom on these require atleast a CAD drawing and lots of money.

If i managed to fart some money, i would go for a custom. That is "only" for the sake of geometry + i could during the so called interview, ask for a bike that rides like a race bike.
The endurance bike will not do that. I would also ask for T47 aswell as 2 differences in geometry.
I would assume it had larger tire clearance which would be a bonus during the off season.

I base my opinions from what i have learned over the years. Disc vs rim, that is another story.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:28 am
by jlok
wheelsONfire wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:03 am
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:36 pm
wheelsONfire wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:42 pm

That begs the question, is it due to looks of the race bike, or is it because they want the feel of a race bike?
With shorter reach you can have a longer cockpit which make the bike feel different.

I would assume vanity takes priority. After all someone with a 60deg back angle isn't exactly going to be carving around switchbacks.

Personally I find the handling differences between bikes to be pretty minimal. In fact I'd say some endurance bikes are better suited to road racing in some ways... Endurance bikes with 75-80mm of BB drop combined with narrower tires potentially lowers your center of mass while cornering.
Well, i have a ti bike and it is off duty. I don't like the geometry which i was persuaded to buy due to my lenght etc.
Should never have listened to that because it's custom.
It's heavy and it doesn't ride nearly aswell as my Ax bike.
I also have an UP and it weights alot. I can set it up so i have same position as my Ax bike. But they are very far off when it comes to ride feel and handling.

Fact is, the Ax bike is so close to what i would order if i went custom so there is no use for me to buy custom.
I really don't care much for brand name at all. I just want fit, handling and comfort. Setting up my Foil and it was riding nervous and had believe it or not, tendency to wobble. So my conclusion from all bikes i have owned, just because you can fit yourself to different sizes they don't ride same or handle same.
For sure they don't feel the same.
I wouldn't say this if it was BS, what would the meaning be?

I can also love cool looking bikes, but i don't buy them if i see that i would have to do bad choices with regards to handling.
These days i have come to the point when i try saddles and handlebars just because of the feel of it. I have preferences for bar shape and saddle shape i look for.
Going custom on these require atleast a CAD drawing and lots of money.

If i managed to fart some money, i would go for a custom. That is "only" for the sake of geometry + i could during the so called interview, ask for a bike that rides like a race bike.
The endurance bike will not do that. I would also ask for T47 aswell as 2 differences in geometry.
I would assume it had larger tire clearance which would be a bonus during the off season.

I base my opinions from what i have learned over the years. Disc vs rim, that is another story.
I agree with you b'cos I have almost the same experience as yours. Spent so much money on fitting and different bikes just to find the best bike for me but in the end got a full custom bike that has great handling. From that point I lost the desire to get another mass produced bike.

Most fitters are not bike designer. They don't know the implications of bike geometries and weight distribution on a bike that fits for purpose for individual riders.

Yes, if you know a bike that fits you and has the desired characteristics, by all means go for it. If not, go custom. The point is that people need to forget marketing brain-wash first.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:38 pm
by cdrx
New Cube Agree with integrated cockpit and an aero picnic box.

https://www.cube.eu/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree/

Also, new colors for other frames.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:23 pm
by pmprego
cdrx wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:38 pm
New Cube Agree with integrated cockpit and an aero picnic box.

https://www.cube.eu/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree/

Also, new colors for other frames.
Did i miss it or not a lot of info on the frame and sk on. They have videos on youtube but I dont know german.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:46 pm
by nulldreiundreissig
cdrx wrote:
Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:38 pm
New Cube Agree with integrated cockpit and an aero picnic box.

https://www.cube.eu/2022/bikes/road/road-race/agree/

Also, new colors for other frames.
"the component is under embargo until 31.08.2021" for the shimano bikes. I guess we therefore know when the 12s stuff will be unveiled

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:19 am
by BigBoyND
pmprego wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:22 pm
BigBoyND wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:53 pm
Wow, looks very slim. Wonder why the move away from aero. I thought their bike was already light for an aero frame.
The aero light to rival the addicts, tarmac, emonda, etc etc.
Based on the new 2022 Cube listings, looks like with the same spec (SLT, 7.3kg vs 7.4kg) it's just ~100g lighter, and that's with shallower wheels. Doesn't seem like enough weight saving to give up those deep aerofoils

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:45 am
by RDY
People on the German forums are saying that new Agree is DA, not UT. Don't believe it for a second though. If we see any bikes with new DA below 6.5k Euros retail before the middle of next year, I'll be astounded. The vast majority will be in the 8.5-15k range IMO.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:03 am
by ViperFFM
New Agree comes both in Ultegra and Dura Ace.

Dura Ace full build is 5599,- €
Ultegra is 3399,- €-

For comparison:
SRAM Force Etap is 4.099,- €

So it is either Dura Ace ande Ultegra 12 speed mechanical; or shimano is lowering prices significantly.
oooor it is Ultegra Di2 and 105 Di2....

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:45 am
by lumpenerna
ViperFFM wrote:
Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:03 am
New Agree comes both in Ultegra and Dura Ace.

Dura Ace full build is 5599,- €
Ultegra is 3399,- €-

For comparison:
SRAM Force Etap is 4.099,- €

So it is either Dura Ace ande Ultegra 12 speed mechanical; or shimano is lowering prices significantly.
oooor it is Ultegra Di2 and 105 Di2....
I can't imagine that it is Ultegra 12 speed mechanical as the price of the Agree with ultegra 11 speed is 2499€. A price difference of 900€ is not justifiable here.

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:59 am
by ViperFFM
But on the other hand it would be a big surprise if DA12 and UA12 would be a lot chepaer than Force and Red etap?

Re: 2022 New Frame Rumours

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 11:59 am
by Weenie

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