2022 New Frame Rumours

Discuss light weight issues concerning road bikes & parts.

Moderator: robbosmans

Lina
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

by Lina

pmprego wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:59 am
maquisard wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:33 am
RDY wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:29 am
The Dacia probably has production costs around the €8-9k mark. The €15k bike, absolute max €1500-€2000. if it's a major brand rather than low volume exotica.
Exactly! This is my point which you have described in much better way.

Even a €2.5k Alu/105 bike the parts cost is probably less than 500€. Price inflation is out of control.
if that markup was real you would have way more companies entering the bike industry market. The bike industry market, the high end particularly, it's a very, tiny small market with zero economies of scale. This is basically the opposite of the car industry.

But i really don't want to enter the price discussion. Just wanted to say that the markups you guys are implying is not true in any industry in the world.
So like all those rebadged open mold brands. Oh wait, those are everywhere. You just choose to ignore them because they're not one of the "old and prestigious" brands.

by Weenie


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cberg
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:30 am

by cberg

F74C269E-75DE-47B2-BF12-A7A8C84957F9.jpeg
Bolide TT disc?

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 1631
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

The frameshape still looks super yesterday.
Open WI.DE (2019) - 8.7kg
Specialized Shiv TT Disc (2020) - 7.9kg
Specialized SW Æthos (2021) 6.5kg
Trek Émonda SLR9 (2021) 7.3kg

*all weights are race ready bikes with large frame size.
Sold: SW Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team

OlieSimpson
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat May 01, 2021 7:20 pm

by OlieSimpson

For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 4522
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!

Totally agree with you!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

fizzaz
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:02 pm

by fizzaz

OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
Ehh not quite. You can tune suspension for handling on a mtb. You don't have the luxury with a road frame. The layups in a carbon road frame are more than likely always more complicated.

maquisard
Posts: 2937
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

fizzaz wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:33 pm
The layups in a carbon road frame are more than likely always more complicated.
Not true. The lay-ups in a carbon fibre MTB frame are perhaps more complex and are subject to more complicated forces due to the suspension components. A composite MTB is simply a much more difficult design and product than a road bike will ever be.

Road bikes are massively over priced.

RDY
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

fizzaz wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:33 pm
OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
Ehh not quite. You can tune suspension for handling on a mtb. You don't have the luxury with a road frame. The layups in a carbon road frame are more than likely always more complicated.
Layups are simple in both. Road more so.

otnemem
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:55 am

by otnemem

cberg wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:46 pm
F74C269E-75DE-47B2-BF12-A7A8C84957F9.jpeg

Bolide TT disc?
Did he use it in the euros?

carbocation
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 pm

by carbocation

OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
How much money do you think MTB frame makers spend on wind tunnel and CFD time?

RDY
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

carbocation wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:30 am
OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
How much money do you think MTB frame makers spend on wind tunnel and CFD time?
Not much, but the cost of suspension design is a lot more costly than that, especially given the number of protos built usually, and what exactly is "CFD time"? :D

cberg
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:30 am

by cberg

otnemem wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:14 am
cberg wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:46 pm
F74C269E-75DE-47B2-BF12-A7A8C84957F9.jpeg

Bolide TT disc?
Did he use it in the euros?
Nope, and it doesnt look like he has been training on it pre WC either when looking at his socials

Aikon
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:27 pm

by Aikon

RDY wrote:
carbocation wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:30 am
OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
How much money do you think MTB frame makers spend on wind tunnel and CFD time?
Not much, but the cost of suspension design is a lot more costly than that, especially given the number of protos built usually, and what exactly is "CFD time"? :D
Computational Fluid Dynamics, something you can do in-house, or outsource if you don’t have enough processing power

RDY
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:31 pm

by RDY

Aikon wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:13 am
RDY wrote:
carbocation wrote:
Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:30 am
OlieSimpson wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:30 pm
For me it's not so much the bike industry that is f*cked in terms of pricing, more the road segment of it specifically.

I come from an MTB background and have recently got in to road riding and to be honest, the price of a road bike is shocking for what you actually get. Compare it to a downhill bike where the frame is actually designed to do something rather than just look fast, whilst also adding in adjustability in terms of geo (flip chips, variable wheel sizes 27.5"/29", head angle altering headsets etc.) then add the forks, rear shock, chain guard etc. and you get a significant bang for your buck (example here: https://www.bikester.nl/mondraker-summu ... gLjpfD_BwE).

The materials are largely the same with carbon frames and wheelsets, titanium parts etc., and I bet there is a lot more engineering going on with a DH frame, it just makes the road bike pricing look like a joke!
How much money do you think MTB frame makers spend on wind tunnel and CFD time?
Not much, but the cost of suspension design is a lot more costly than that, especially given the number of protos built usually, and what exactly is "CFD time"? :D
Computational Fluid Dynamics, something you can do in-house, or outsource if you don’t have enough processing power
I know what CFD is ...

maquisard
Posts: 2937
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Indeed, RDY's point is that CAD and Simulation isn't expensive nowadays. Biggest cost is actually software licences, not hardware or processing time.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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