Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!
Moderator: robbosmans
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Seedster
- Posts: 672
- Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:05 pm
by Seedster on Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:35 am
spdntrxi wrote:Seedster wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:51 pm
Doesn't seem all that compelling of an offering. Appears to be a platform to move all of their components and wheelsets. I have never understood the appeal of Enve parts on custom/exotic road builds because the parts aren't lighter or more aero than their alternatives.
For $7k, you could get a Sarto, Argonaut or Crumpton...
what if you already have one...
Perhaps a Prova, Festka or Bastion...
New Bikes are fun debates. If you are an enve fan and were looking at big box brands like specialized and trek, this bike may tick the box.
I don’t foresee this bike poaching sales from the boutique carbon builders like Sarto. After all, Enve doesn’t even offer a campagnolo build
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guyc
- Posts: 1742
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- Location: Hampshire, England
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Contact:
by guyc on Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:45 am
alexneumuller wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:41 am
guyc wrote:alexneumuller wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:37 pm
guyc wrote:
I'll tell you. It'll be in no way better than your SL7 or any number of the bikes you already have.
I let you know after.....
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First dibs on whichever you sell. We know it'll fit me
Any preference?
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SL7? Anything Ti.
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Cycomanic
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm
by Cycomanic on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:03 am
Karvalo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:47 am
Cycomanic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:07 am
I don't get why they went with an integrated seatmast. That's a terrible idea and pretty much every other brand has stopped. Unless the seatmast is perfectly cut (which is impossible with regular tools) you will have very bad loads on the mast via the topper and how it is clammed. This will result in movement and could also damage the carbon.
it's a custom bike. They'll make it with the seatmast the right length for you. Unless something goes seriously wrong you'd only ever have to cut it if you were buying a second hand one from someone with longer legs.
The problem is people do adjust their saddle height. That's the issue with integrated seatposts, if the topper ("sleeve") sits perfectly flat on the seat mast (which requires cutting the tube with mm accuracy btw) everything is ok. As soon as you move it though, things become entirely suboptimal. That's the irony, integrated seatubes only work if used at one length exactly. So by providing the topper for adjustment, they essentially admit that people don't just use one length, and supply a suboptimal bandaid.
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Karvalo
- Posts: 3442
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by Karvalo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:24 am
Cycomanic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:03 am
The problem is people do adjust their saddle height. That's the issue with integrated seatposts, if the topper ("sleeve") sits perfectly flat on the seat mast (which requires cutting the tube with mm accuracy btw) everything is ok. As soon as you move it though, things become entirely suboptimal. That's the irony, integrated seatubes only work if used at one length exactly. So by providing the topper for adjustment, they essentially admit that people don't just use one length, and supply a suboptimal bandaid.
Right, I thought you were talking about the quality of the cut. But this... suboptimal bandaid? Whatever.
I worked for a large Giant dealer for around 8 years and the number of SLs we had back with seatmast problems was exactly zero, so the amount of concern I have for this facet of the Enve design is also zero.
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jlok
- Posts: 2400
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by jlok on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:30 am
Not sure what problem would arise but I had owned Propel SL and TCR SL with no seat mast problem (even crashed once). No creaking, no damage, just no problem. I expect Enve design to be just as good.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10
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TobinHatesYou
- Posts: 12455
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm
by TobinHatesYou on Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:19 am
Uhh, at least with the Trek no-cut seatmast caps, there is no "ceiling" on the cap that rests on the top of the ST. Is the TCR design really meant to be like that? I doubt ENVE's is...it looks more like a Trek seatmast topper than a Giant one.
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Raimundo
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:55 pm
- Location: Flanders
by Raimundo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:43 am
raggedtrousers wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:14 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmRvwb1KhY
Problems:
1. It is very hard to make a completely flat cut, leading to rocking on the clamp
2. Perhaps unique to Giant: the diameter of their clamp seems too large
Result:
Screenshot 2021-03-29 111313.png
How common this problem is, I couldn't say: I'm not an engineer.
Solutions:
1. No, its not hard to do a flat cut, and if one is a complete noob, either take it to someone who knos how to do it, or just stay away from ISP's.
2. If you are not comfortable with it, than shim it, just like the guy from your video did... (you can even use tubeless tape to do this)
And that screenshot of yours is what it says on the caption box, an extreme exageration.
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kode54
- Posts: 3748
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm
by kode54 on Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:31 pm
I cut the ISP on my Argonaut Spacebike 2.0 and never had issues with the seat topper. fit was very tight and didn't have to use carbon paste.
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Cycomanic
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:10 pm
by Cycomanic on Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:01 pm
Wookski wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:32 am
The Enve topper is a proven system used for years by speedvagen, prova, 22 etc. It's not some abstract new feature.
Well Prova and Speedvagen don't compare they are alloy or use an alloy tube were the sleeve goes. The problem is when the mast is carbon. There are reasons why pretty much everyone stopped doing it on carbon bikes. It's a stupid bandaid solution to a problem one created in the first place by not using a proper seat post. The video gives some good reasons why it's not really good idea.
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Karvalo
- Posts: 3442
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by Karvalo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:18 pm
raggedtrousers wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:14 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmRvwb1KhY
Problems:
1. It is very hard to make a completely flat cut, leading to rocking on the clamp
2. Perhaps unique to Giant: the diameter of their clamp seems too large
Result:
Screenshot 2021-03-29 111313.png
How common this problem is, I couldn't say: I'm not an engineer.
A) Not common.
B) Again, this is a custom bike. Enve would make the bike with the seatmast at the right height for the customer's range of saddle positions in any eventuality, negating the need for any potentially uneven cutting - at least for the original owner.
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Karvalo
- Posts: 3442
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by Karvalo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:26 pm
Cycomanic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:01 pm
Well Prova and Speedvagen don't compare they are alloy or use an alloy tube were the sleeve goes. The problem is when the mast is carbon. There are reasons why pretty much everyone stopped doing it on carbon bikes. It's a stupid bandaid solution to a problem one created in the first place by not using a proper seat post. The video gives some good reasons why it's not really good idea.
There is no problem when the mast is carbon. Pretty much everything being described in the video is a QC issue or improper fit issue. Mis-sized or improperly installed seatposts cause issues just like mis-sized or improperly installed mast toppers cause issues. In neither case does it mean the concept itself is faulty.
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raggedtrousers
- Posts: 416
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by raggedtrousers on Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:01 pm
Raimundo wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:43 am
raggedtrousers wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:14 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmRvwb1KhY
Problems:
1. It is very hard to make a completely flat cut, leading to rocking on the clamp
2. Perhaps unique to Giant: the diameter of their clamp seems too large
Result:
Screenshot 2021-03-29 111313.png
How common this problem is, I couldn't say: I'm not an engineer.
Solutions:
1. No, its not hard to do a flat cut, and if one is a complete noob, either take it to someone who knos how to do it, or just stay away from ISP's.
2. If you are not comfortable with it, than shim it, just like the guy from your video did... (you can even use tubeless tape to do this)
And that screenshot of yours is what it says on the caption box, an extreme exageration.
No need for the tone, dude - I'm summarising a video [not 'my' video btw]. You're very welcome to go to the YouTube page and poke holes there.