Hookless tires

[raggedtrousers]

Looking at the design, I suspect there is a theoretical risk with hookless. How great that is in the real world, none of us can know. I suspect not very, simply because the manufacturers presumably don't want lawsuits from people who have sustained serious injuries from tyres coming off and have therefore, I'd imagine, been quite careful, likely more so than usual. An out of tolerance bb shell, to take everyone's favourite example, is a nuisance and a warranty issue; a seriously out of tolerance rim or tyre is a potential disaster. With that in mind, it's up to the consumer to make their own decision.

To the OP, I'd go for Schwalbe Pro Ones. They seem compatible and are a good tyre.

[synchronicity]

Another useless post. Thanks synchronicity, what would we do without you here to grace us with your invaluable opinion and superior intellect.

My opinion is just as valid as yours. I did not start with the personal attacks.
Do you prefer to live in a virtual echo chamber where everyone agrees on everything?

When manufacturers cannot find any new materials, they resort to new designs.
The design of hookless rims is flawed from the very beginning.

Designs are going to be criticised. If not by me then by plenty of other people. That's part of designing and selling things.
If the designer (or the buyer) can't handle any form of criticism, that's not saying much is it?

If you or they put it out there, be prepared to defend it. Why is it "better"? Is it in fact "better"? Or is it just to sell more? To make other rims prematurely superceded? I think the latter. Absolutely I think the latter, because that's how this whole industry seems to work. Planned obsolescence.

And you can be all sarcastic, and bully, but I'll keep posting anyway.

[pmprego]

Another useless post. Thanks synchronicity, what would we do without you here to grace us with your invaluable opinion and superior intellect.

My opinion is just as valid as yours. I did not start with the personal attacks.
Do you prefer to live in a virtual echo chamber where everyone agrees on everything?

You're missing the point. The op asked for help/recommendation regarding which tires to use with his hookless wheels. Your "help" was in the line of "just ditch the hookless wheels because they are stupid". While you can argue that was not the topic of the op thus your comment didn't add any value to the conversation.

The same would be applied if to the op I would say "bicycles are stupid, buy a car". It's an opinion and no one can say it's stupid. BUT for the question at hand it would be a stupid reply on my part.

[synchronicity]

It's not "politically correct" to tell me "Another useless post. Thanks synchronicity, what would we do without you here to grace us with your invaluable opinion and superior intellect."

How does attacking someone, an individual, add any value? It doesn't. That is an even more "useless reply" than my original one!
There is a difference between criticising a PRODUCT and criticising a HUMAN.

[MikeD]

The Giant hookless rim page supports the view that tolerances are crucial too:

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/global/h ... technology

"(......) hookless rim bead...
...pair tires and rims."

There is a link to their test protocol on the Giant hookless page

If the maximum......
....USE?” chart.
The Giant test protocol consists of two tests

HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST
First, .........
.........
blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times
the recommended maximum pressure is intended
to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a
square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the
tire pressure to increase suddenly. ..........

.......high pressure tolerance test.

HIGH PRESSURE BRAKING TEST
The tire.....
.......position of more than 3mm.
This test is used to simulate accidental high-speed
uncontrolled braking causing excessive friction between
road and tire and possible movement of the tire on the
rim resulting in blow-off.
NOTE: If the maximum.....
.....CAN I USE?” chart.

https://dk8nafk1kle6o.cloudfront.net/Im ... 233745.pdf

I hardly think they have rushed into high volume hookless wheel sales without thinking about it.
I remain unconcerned and expect these will continue given other wheel manufacturers have also gone that way.

Bold highlights indicate that Giant has a sales & marketing department that spews drivel - they're both nonsense statements. Giant make some good framesets and various decent parts, but I can't take them seriously for wheels and tyres if they publish that rubbish.

The entire high pressure test text makes more sense;
HIGH PRESSURE TOLERANCE TEST
First, the tire is inflated to 72.5 psi (5 bar), an average
minimum pressure for most riders on 25c tires,
and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours
without blowing off. Next, the tire is inflated to its
recommended maximum pressure and must withstand
this pressure for 24 hours without blowing off. After
that, the tire is inflated to 1.2 times the recommended
maximum pressure and must withstand this pressure
for 24 hours without blowing off. Finally, the tire is
inflated to 1.5 times the recommended maximum
pressure and must withstand this pressure for 24 hours
without blowing off. The final number of 1.5 times
the recommended maximum pressure is intended
to simulate such extreme conditions as hitting a
square edge or a pothole at high speed causing the
tire pressure to increase suddenly. If the tire has been
able to withstand the four pressures for 24 hours
respectively without blowing off, it passes the Giant
high pressure tolerance test.

They test the tyres and list them if compatible if they pass.
Call it what you like by quoting an isolated passage of the test protocol, but it is not as if they are marketing untested equipment.
Zipp and Enve are also making hookless rims.
Giant are not alone.
Continue with box section aluminim rims and glue on singles if it makes you happy.
I have some hooked tubeless rims but will be happy to run hookless when I eventually grab a new bike.

This test is a lot better than nothing. But what if the rim is at the low end of the bead seat diameter tolerance and the tire bead is at the max end? A sample of one is not statistically confidence inspiring either.

Did you know that the maximum pressure stamped on the sidewall of a standard clincher tire to be used with hooked rims is 1/2 the blow off pressure? Safety factor of 2 vs. 1.5 with hookless. Plus, standard clincher tires are lighter and cheaper too. So much of the bogus weight savings of hookless rims. If you're using tubes (and most road riders do), it's dumb to have to use a tubeless tire.

[raggedtrousers]

Don't want to derail, but following MikeD above, I'm unconvinced by tubeless for road - and it's interesting that manufacturers seem to be diverging, i.e. Specialized/Roval going tubed. vs Zipp/Enve going tubeless and hookless.

[AnkitS]

How does attacking someone, an individual, add any value? It doesn't. That is an even more "useless reply" than my original one!
There is a difference between criticising a PRODUCT and criticising a HUMAN.

Except I added value to the thread, you haven't. A couple of pages ago you hadn't even heard of hookless.

What?!
Another standard?
I hadn't even heard about these until now.
Oh I'm not surprised that zipp is on board, they can't get enough of planned obsolescence!

I'll stick with my clinchers thanks.

What exactly does this post add to the discussion on hand? No reasoning, no expanation, just sharing what you will be doing (which absolutely nobody cares about). You didn't critisize any product in any of your posts, you esentially just said "HEHE SOMETHING NEW? NEW BAD!! ZIPP BAD!!!"

[pmprego]

Don't want to derail, but following MikeD above, I'm unconvinced by tubeless for road - and it's interesting that manufacturers seem to be diverging, i.e. Specialized/Roval going tubed. vs Zipp/Enve going tubeless and hookless.

Don't be fooled by roval marketing. The wheels were initially sent as tubeless ready and then changed to non tubeless ready. Were you expecting them not to try and spin it some other way? Come on...

[raggedtrousers]

Don't want to derail, but following MikeD above, I'm unconvinced by tubeless for road - and it's interesting that manufacturers seem to be diverging, i.e. Specialized/Roval going tubed. vs Zipp/Enve going tubeless and hookless.

Don't be fooled by roval marketing. The wheels were initially sent as tubeless ready and then changed to non tubeless ready. Were you expecting them not to try and spin it some other way? Come on...

How so? A defect/problem found after sending the product to market? Not saying you're wrong, just unsure of the circumstances here.

[pmprego]

Don't want to derail, but following MikeD above, I'm unconvinced by tubeless for road - and it's interesting that manufacturers seem to be diverging, i.e. Specialized/Roval going tubed. vs Zipp/Enve going tubeless and hookless.

Don't be fooled by roval marketing. The wheels were initially sent as tubeless ready and then changed to non tubeless ready. Were you expecting them not to try and spin it some other way? Come on...

How so? A defect/problem found after sending the product to market? Not saying you're wrong, just unsure of the circumstances here.

But if it is a defect (probable was) it also means that roval was not trying to go away from tubeless. It is rather the opposite. They wanted to make a tubeless wheel but something went wrong.

[pmprego]

.

[bm0p700f]

Zipps test is junk. Normal.engineering practice is to use a safety factor of 2. If this safety factor is used the max tyre pressure would be 55 psi and they would not sell any wheels.

The problem here the bike industry is the wild west and that insulting to the wild west.

[HansZuDemFranz]

Don't want to derail, but following MikeD above, I'm unconvinced by tubeless for road - and it's interesting that manufacturers seem to be diverging, i.e. Specialized/Roval going tubed. vs Zipp/Enve going tubeless and hookless.

Don't be fooled by roval marketing. The wheels were initially sent as tubeless ready and then changed to non tubeless ready. Were you expecting them not to try and spin it some other way? Come on...

How so? A defect/problem found after sending the product to market? Not saying you're wrong, just unsure of the circumstances here.

I don't know if it's still the case, but the first batches of the rapides even came with tubeless tape preinstalled. They also feature the rim bed, that is typical for tubeless ready rims.
It was a last minute decision and is definitely not roval going against tubeless.

[warthog101]

https://youtu.be/66KPtappr-c

[IceLed]

Thanks for all the reaponses. I ordered the Michelin tires. They came in and so did the wheels. I am going to run some gravelkings on them for a bit on my Aspero before I put the road tires on. The Zipps are amazing, cant say enough about Ryan the owner of Speed Vision who built the wheels. Super prices and quality build. 1315g for the set with tape and valves. Ill report back on the tires in a few weeks.

How???
I mean, super weight!
Did you just order the rims and the hubs separately?
If yes, can you please elaborate a bit on the choices? Guessing you went with 303 Firecrest and Exp hubs...
I wish there was someone like Ryan in EU as well...


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