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Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:10 am
by talltales
RDY wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:47 am
Mechanical is probably more expensive to make, definitely more expensive to engineer, OEM market doesn't like it, and cyclists are prepared to pay up to double for a product (electronic) that's actually cheaper.

I'd be surprised if there's another top of the line mechanical groupset from Campag, let alone SRAM & Shimano. From what I've heard, Force mechanical is potentially on the chopping block too for next gen. I think it's undecided at Shimano whether R81xx mechanical will come to market or not (it certainly won't happen soon) - they may just keep R8000.
Electronic groups are not "electronic", they are "electro mechanical". Im positive the DRs are much more expensive (to manufacture) than mechanical vs the brifters that are likely to be cheaper than mechanical. - Definately so if they are wired like DI2. Not sure what wireless adds to the mix but not a lot im sure.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:10 am
by Weenie

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:24 pm
by DaveS
Not having wires running through the bars seems like a big improvement, but I've never used Di2. Setting up axs was incredibly easy. Both have the same 50 grams of battery aboard. Wireless requires space for a transmitter in each shifter and a receiver in each derailleur.

When I switched my rim brake bikes from chorus 12 to force axs, I kept the chorus 48/32 cranks and chorus brakes and saw no weight gain from the change. The 10-36 cassette was about 30 grams lighter than the 11-34. I'd already been using the axs chain with the Campy drivetrain, but the 36T sprocket required an inch longer chain.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:20 pm
by Karvalo
preludervtec wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:54 pm
Karvalo wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:50 pm
kervelo wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:10 pm
I think we will see many gravel bikes with Rival AXS levers & brakes and Eagle GX AXS rear derailleur.
Definitely. Sram is also selling it aftermarket as a bundled mullet groupset.
Do you have a part number for this bundled mullet groupset? Or the source for this info?

I plan on ordering this exact setup for a budget mullet build.
https://www.sigmasports.com/item/SRAM/ ... upset/TP9H

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:38 pm
by talltales
£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:11 pm
by de zwarten
So after all the dust has settled:
The negatives: it weighs a ton, made out of cheap materials and it's not available for rim brakes. It's also not meant to be working with anything out of the SRAM ecosystem.
But that's OK, because it's wireless and it's for discs. So it keeps its resale value. And that cheap power meter could be handy to see how many more watts you have to push to drag that extra kilo up the mountain.

(I'll happily take a mechanical 2x12 speed Chorus any day and save some money)

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:23 pm
by Kjetil
Oh yeah

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:55 pm
by raggedtrousers
I'm a big fan of SRAM's shift logic, the integration of the system, and the 48/35 and 10-33 setup covers 95% of options for 95% of people on road, while the AXS wide is great for a fast-ish gravel bike or a bike that's going to see dual duty. I'm not really bothered that it doesn't play nicely with other parts/manufacturers, because we're very near the stage when Campag and Shimano are/will be much the same.
My issues with it are - in order - FD unreliability, price, and weight. I suspect that Rival AXS won't change my perception of AXS's strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn't choose this over mechanical Chorus or Ultegra, but it will appeal to some, and the appearance of electronic on lower end groupsets is interesting.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:57 pm
by LanceLegstrong
talltales wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:38 pm
£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html
+1. I feel like you can build a much lighter Di2 grupo for the same price. And cheaper if you're already in the Shimano ecosystem. Now, it's wireless (pro or con depending on your view), and it's available now (hopefully). So if you're doing a complete grupo swap, it's not a bad idea and looks like an easy way to get an electronic system. But say, to upgrade my 105 mechanical, it's way cheaper/easier to go with Ultegra Di2; I keep the calipers, cassette, chain, crankset.

If nothing else, it forces Shimano's hand a bit, either with pricing or new product developments.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:02 pm
by cveks
petromyzon wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:47 am
For the millionth time. It's not SRAM's, or anyone else's, entry level, you can still get many mechanical groupsets below this.

If you allow for inflation road bikes are miles better in performance and general function than they were when I started 15 years ago.

Yes, I'm slightly upset that when I started it wouldn't have been impossible to go out and buy a top-of-the line machine but now the relative price is such that I couldn't afford it.

I would like SRAM to continue making light, elegant and affordable mechanical groupsets but clearly they don't think that is a good strategy in the marketplace and it's hard to argue with them. They are going to let Campy do the light and elegant bit and Shimano do the affordable.

If you don't want SRAM Rival AXS then no-one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy it for 1463 Eur; but it's a strong product launch when you view it in the right context.

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:33 pm
by Kjetil
They were supercharged

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:35 pm
by Karvalo
talltales wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:38 pm
£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html
You're comparing across two different markets and retail price vs discount warehouse. It's not the same thing.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:49 pm
by raggedtrousers
cveks wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:02 pm

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/
I suspect EPO>AXS in this context.

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:53 pm
by overdriven98
cveks wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:02 pm
petromyzon wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:47 am
For the millionth time. It's not SRAM's, or anyone else's, entry level, you can still get many mechanical groupsets below this.

If you allow for inflation road bikes are miles better in performance and general function than they were when I started 15 years ago.

Yes, I'm slightly upset that when I started it wouldn't have been impossible to go out and buy a top-of-the line machine but now the relative price is such that I couldn't afford it.

I would like SRAM to continue making light, elegant and affordable mechanical groupsets but clearly they don't think that is a good strategy in the marketplace and it's hard to argue with them. They are going to let Campy do the light and elegant bit and Shimano do the affordable.

If you don't want SRAM Rival AXS then no-one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy it for 1463 Eur; but it's a strong product launch when you view it in the right context.

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/
you are right, EPO and crack are far more effcient and cost effective than a expensive groupset, unbeatable dollar to watt ratio

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:53 pm
by Maximilian
raggedtrousers wrote:
cveks wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:02 pm

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/
I suspect EPO>AXS in this context.
Exactly. The top 14 times were set between 1994 and 2006... Those riders were fully juiced up and I’m not referring to AXS batteries... Image


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Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:53 pm
by Weenie

Re: Sram Rival AXS

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:01 pm
by raggedtrousers
It's like all the women's track and field records from the late eighties to the late nineties. Many may well never be beaten.

But if SRAM are offering that with Rival, well then no one needs to worry about the weight increase!!