Sram Rival AXS

[RDY]

Today's guys are juiced too. Just not to the same obscene extent as they were at the peak.

[cveks]

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/

I suspect EPO>AXS in this context.

Yeah they are all clean now. They win TDF mainly on mineral water these days

[cveks]

For the millionth time. It's not SRAM's, or anyone else's, entry level, you can still get many mechanical groupsets below this.

If you allow for inflation road bikes are miles better in performance and general function than they were when I started 15 years ago.

Yes, I'm slightly upset that when I started it wouldn't have been impossible to go out and buy a top-of-the line machine but now the relative price is such that I couldn't afford it.

I would like SRAM to continue making light, elegant and affordable mechanical groupsets but clearly they don't think that is a good strategy in the marketplace and it's hard to argue with them. They are going to let Campy do the light and elegant bit and Shimano do the affordable.

If you don't want SRAM Rival AXS then no-one is holding a gun to your head to force you to buy it for 1463 Eur; but it's a strong product launch when you view it in the right context.

Haha thats probably nobody from pro peloton in last 10 years , with their ultra modern electronic carbon groupsets , cant beat Alp D Huez top times which were made by guys with chromoly and alluminium framesets and groupsets. And of course all mechanic , without power meter, without any modern electronic "I cant live without it" equipment.

https://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/cycl ... lpe-dhuez/

you are right, EPO and crack are far more effcient and cost effective than a expensive groupset, unbeatable dollar to watt ratio

In my riding area there is lot of cyclists who ride electronic groupsets while I use mechanical groupsets only. I beat their best times on flat, uphills , downhills . Because I produce more watts per kg then they can . No gear can beat good cardio, legs and lungs. With exception of e-bike motor. No gear can subtitute good training program. And price of this entry level groupset which Rival AXS actually is would be around 2000 euros with custom charges in my country.

Too much in 90% of the world.

[raggedtrousers]

Yeah they are all clean now. They win TDF mainly on mineral water these days

Nope, they'll use offseason and microdose during the Grand Tours to maintain a stable HCT level to baseline. They just won't be Mr 60% anymore, hence the times being slower. That's why pro cycling got 5% slower overnight when the moved from blood passports only to an actual EPO test, and why all the fastest Alpe times are pre EPO test.

[petromyzon]

I don't own an electronic groupset so I'm not sure why I am arguing with you on this one.
You are right that improving oxygen delivery to your muscles is the key as raggedtrousers so clearly explains. Cycling is not clean now but it was a lot dirtier back then.
For Shimano and Campagnolo, weights between the electronic and mechanical variants are close enough that having electronic will not compromise your power to weight ratio. Despite being expensive they still seem like a very popular choice with journalists and customers alike.

In the Pro peloton, they get paid to ride what they are told but I don't remember many dissenting voices insisting on riding mechanical. Electronic just seems to work better, particularly in terms of front shifting.

I'm not interested in buying Rival AXS but I am confident they will sell a lot of it because it's what the market seems to want. Probably the only place in the world where people will claim it is entry-level kit is on Weight Weenies.

But don't let any of that get in the way of your self satisfaction - if people spending more than you on their bikes and yet going slower is the way you validate yourself then enjoy.

[Andrew69]

Yeah they are all clean now. They win TDF mainly on mineral water these days

And bread....you forgot the bread

[cveks]

Are you aware that new modern groupsets are much more expensive than old 10 or 11 speed but they weight much more? Because they make them from cheaper and heavier materials these days.

Compare for example weight difference between 11 and 12 speed Campy Chorus or Sram Red/Force

[cveks]

Yeah they are all clean now. They win TDF mainly on mineral water these days

Nope, they'll use offseason and microdose during the Grand Tours to maintain a stable HCT level to baseline. They just won't be Mr 60% anymore, hence the times being slower. That's why pro cycling got 5% slower overnight when the moved from blood passports only to an actual EPO test, and why all the fastest Alpe times are pre EPO test.

So you want to say that if I invest 2000+ euros in newest mumbo jumbo electronic geoupset it won't make me any faster?

[talltales]

£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html

You're comparing across two different markets and retail price vs discount warehouse. It's not the same thing.

Im comparing prices from marketplaces that I actually buy from. If you know of a place that sells the SRAM stuff cheaper, let us know. Im not here to bash SRAM, im just not convinced its actually any cheaper than DI2 if you compare similar specced packages. In this instance 1x for a gravel bike. To me it looks about even, or GRX even a bit cheaper than Rival AXS. Cant say im surpriced either. SRAM wireless anything was allways expensive.

[raggedtrousers]

So you want to say that if I invest 2000+ euros in newest mumbo jumbo electronic geoupset it won't make me any faster?

No, it might make you a bit faster; on the other hand it might not. Depends what you had before.

There might also be reasons other than pure speed why someone wants any piece of equipment. If you get terrible saddle sores, for example, you might happily invest 200 euros in a saddle that is much heavier than your previous one.

What I was saying is that PEDs make people faster, much more than differences in equipment. Advances in testing mean it's harder to take lots of PEDs. That's why guys from the 90s were faster. It's got nothing to do with the bikes they ride.

[raggedtrousers]

£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html

You're comparing across two different markets and retail price vs discount warehouse. It's not the same thing.

Im comparing prices from marketplaces that I actually buy from. If you know of a place that sells the SRAM stuff cheaper, let us know. Im not here to bash SRAM, im just not convinced its actually any cheaper than DI2 if you compare similar specced packages. In this instance 1x for a gravel bike. To me it looks about even, or GRX even a bit cheaper than Rival AXS. Cant say im surpriced either. SRAM wireless anything was allways expensive.

In the UK, prior to the availability crisis, SRAM's equivalent groupset to Shimano was, very roughly, 15% more expensive, It's always been enough to notice but generally not enough to be the deciding factor in comparisons. Campag has always been appreciably more expensive again. Those differences increase again on spare parts.

It is, of course, incredibly hard to compare prices, because until recently, there was an over-supply, so RRP was largely irrelevant. There are also discount warehouses, often selling slightly superceded groupsets - i.e. post mount - or slightly incomplete ones - i.e. no chain or cassette. There are sales, there are international suppliers who deal in a different currency and where you may or may not get charged import duty, the grey OEM market, etc etc. The bike component industry is one of several where operators very deliberately try - or always tried - to make precise price comparisons difficult.

We'll all have a much clearer idea on pricing when the supply issues resolve themselves. At the moment, the supply/demand ratio is so skewed that the 'normal' rules don't really apply. By the time we get back to where we were, or close, the bike bubble may have burst. I certainly expect somewhere between late 2021 and mid 2022 to be a very good time to pick up used equipment.

[Karvalo]

£1,247.00 = budget ?

Am I the only one not feeling it. To me it feels equally expensive as ultegra/GRX DI2 or close. Right?

Ofcourse Shimano is out of stock, but GRX DI2 1x is actually cheaper. Not that it helps .. :

https://www.bike24.com/p2342341.html

You're comparing across two different markets and retail price vs discount warehouse. It's not the same thing.

Im comparing prices from marketplaces that I actually buy from. If you know of a place that sells the SRAM stuff cheaper, let us know. Im not here to bash SRAM, im just not convinced its actually any cheaper than DI2 if you compare similar specced packages. In this instance 1x for a gravel bike. To me it looks about even, or GRX even a bit cheaper than Rival AXS. Cant say im surpriced either. SRAM wireless anything was allways expensive.

GRX has been out for nearly 2 years - Rival AXS less than a week, in the middle of a global component shortage. GRX might be cheaper today, that doesn't mean Rival AXS won't be cheaper through the lifespan of the product. Doesn't mean it will either, but it does mean you're still making a misleading comparison.

[ViperFFM]

So for a hundred bucks more you can get a record 12 groupset?

I'd rather the Patek than the Casio

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Campy ain't Patek. More like Panerai.

True. Similarites are incredible. Same historic, italian design with questionable quality

Campa Panerai
Shimano Grand Seiko
SRAM..... RGM? So few manufactures i the US unfortunately.

[Kjetil]

Repeatedly stating that Campag is of “questionable Italian quality” doesn’t make it a truth.

They used to say Campag wears in, Shimano wears out. SRAM breaks was added by some quickwit.

[maquisard]

They used to say Campag wears in, Shimano wears out. SRAM breaks was added by some quickwit.

To say this implies Campag equipment leaves the factory with incorrect tolerances and hence needs to wear in to work best this also fits with Italian manufacturing engineering being poorer than Japanese. I think you would struggle to find a manufacturing engineer who wouldn't agree with that