Sram Rival AXS

[jfranci3]

I don't understand why they did all this for 1.5mm of tire clearence. Just make a damn spacer set.

[Hexsense]

This happened in the camera market years ago. Precise mechanical components are expensive to assemble and QC has to be spot on. This keeps costs high.
Manufacturing innovations for assembling digital components are easier to find and will result in lower prices (higher profits).

On camera,
They eliminate a high precision high cost mechanical part on the mirror, creating mirrorless camera.
But another high cost part still exist as mechanical shutter curtain. A total electronic shutter without any mechanical shutter system on the camera would save another chunk.

On bike world, it would be like eliminating cable pull. But still keeping spring tension on the derailleurs. Sram still use clutch on the RD. While the pulley cage tensioning can be made entirely through motor.

[bikewithnoname]

So for a hundred bucks more you can get a record 12 groupset?

I'd rather the Patek than the Casio

[johanalexander]

Considering that this is effectively a $3k groupset technology trickled down to $1.2-1.4k price point, I'd argue that that's cheap. If we wait, these groupsets get discounted even further. Pre-pandemic, Competitive Cyclist would discount a Red hrd groupset w/o cranks for around 2k; Force hrd w/o cranks would be discounted at 1.5k. If we were in a normal supply chain situation, it wouldn't be farfetched to see this groupset priced at 1k after discounts. For the technology you're getting at that price point, I'd argue that's still cheap.

Now if you're arguing that bikes are just plain expensive, you're right.

You nailed it yourself.

We can dream about discounts here and there as much as we want to, but as long as we really can't get a discount, what's the point of that?
I get what you're saying, but the pricing of bikes in general plus what the pandemic have done to pricing is completely havoc of what is sensible. Am I bitter? Yes, as a person with a normal but good job and with a decent pay check every month, having to put up with prices that would be more fitting to the pockets of Carlos Slim just to enjoy a hobby/form of training that I once found was quite accessible can make me a bit bitter yes. I used to ride MX bikes as a hobby, but stopped when it took too much time and money. But guess what I found, lol...

[openwheelracing]

So for a hundred bucks more you can get a record 12 groupset?

I'd rather the Patek than the Casio

LOL I wouldn't go that far. Campy ain't Patek. More like Panerai.

[Liimis22]

I'm getting force rim brake version (fd, rd and EB-FRC-D1 levers) next week but really dunno what to do with cranks.
My Lbs told me about this new rival crank and powermeter option, makes me confused cause it's cheap but also bike is heavyish (spec allez sprint).

Current gearing is 52/36 11-28, I think 48/35 10-28 Is fine but what to do with cranks?

My current powermeter is wahoo kickr so I don't have powermeter on bike, should I just get force cranks and pm-pedals or, force powermeter, or rival pm-cranks. What's best option weight/moneyvise ? What would you do?

And wheels are mavic's that I have two pairs and love them so it's not an option for weight reduction, hmm just realized that I also need 3 new freehubs and cassettes.

[TobinHatesYou]

So for a hundred bucks more you can get a record 12 groupset?

I'd rather the Patek than the Casio

Pretty flawed analogy. Campagnalo is no PP, VC or AP. Rival eTap AXS is no Casio. They occupy a much narrower comparison range.

[Andrew69]

Edit: Never mind, found what I was looking for

[TobinHatesYou]

Agreed. My bet is that electronic drivetrains are already cheaper for the manufacturers than mechanical ones. Add bigger shelf price and you have double profit.

+1

This happened in the camera market years ago. Precise mechanical components are expensive to assemble and QC has to be spot on. This keeps costs high.

Manufacturing innovations for assembling digital components are easier to find and will result in lower prices (higher profits).

Mechanically operated cameras didn't become more expensive to manufacture, they just became less desirable. It's not like Leicas are the only examples of cameras with mechanical dials/knobs/shutters/etc. A plastic instant film camera is a mechanical device. Derailleurs with electric motors still need the same amount of precision as analog derailleurs, in fact they probably need more precision because a human can massage a cable-operated shift to account for any slop in the setup.

[TobinHatesYou]

1400$ for a third tier groupset. This hobby have gotten silly.

Rival eTap AXS is meant for $4500 bikes. There's plenty of price points beneath it. Now consider this, Shimano has nothing between Ultegra mechanical and Di2. They have a groupset for the $3500 range and for the $5500 range, but a hole in their line-up. 105 Di2 likely isn't coming in 2022.

[ooo]

I guess maybe the Rival levers are lighter than RED and Force……waiting for seperated weighing

It's potentially a reasonable assumption.

rival axs brifter weight is 263g (with fluids) vs Force AXS HRD 238g (with fluids) vs Force AXS Rim brake 151g (175g with cable)

[spartan]

i luv how the Sram fan boys don't mention the elephant in the room. weight. Sram Rival is so close to Force why spec Force vs Rival and upgrade the wheelset.

"Naturally, Rival AXS is heavier still, adding almost 200 g on top of that already sizable pile, bringing total claimed groupset weight up to a substantial 3,155 g — about 600 g heavier than Shimano Ultegra Di2 Disc, and roughly 900 g heavier than a Shimano 105 mechanical disc groupset."

[RDY]

I guess maybe the Rival levers are lighter than RED and Force……waiting for seperated weighing

It's potentially a reasonable assumption.

rival axs brifter weight is 263g (with fluids) vs Force AXS HRD 238g (with fluids) vs Force AXS Rim brake 151g (175g with cable)

Meh. Wonder how much weight they purposely added to it. Guess they used a heavy lever / blade. Someone needs to do a moulded thermoplastic lever and blade for it.

[TobinHatesYou]

i luv how the Sram fan boys don't mention the elephant in the room. weight. Sram Rival is so close to Force why spec Force vs Rival and upgrade the wheelset.

"Naturally, Rival AXS is heavier still, adding almost 200 g on top of that already sizable pile, bringing total claimed groupset weight up to a substantial 3,155 g — about 600 g heavier than Shimano Ultegra Di2 Disc, and roughly 900 g heavier than a Shimano 105 mechanical disc groupset."

If weight is a concern, swap the cassette and crankset... same thing with Force vs Red. The other components are distinguished by other features like the omission of the fluid damped clutch in the RD, the cage material, the lack of aux connectors or contact point adjustment in the levers.

I could easily see someone running a Rival RD, Force FD, Red cassette, Red cranks and Rival shifters/calipers.

[DaveS]

So for a hundred bucks more you can get a record 12 groupset?

I'd rather the Patek than the Casio

In the USA, chorus disc group costs $1500, record is $1900 and rival axs is about $1160.