Custom steel - some options

[Broady]

Thanks for all the input guys - it's been really helpful. I've narrowed it down a bit and am going to try and have a phone/zoom chat with a few guys over the next week and go from there. One thing that has surprised me is the very varying quality of builders' responses to emails; it's varied from a very fast turnaround with a detailed and helpful reply, to slow and brief, to no reply at all!

Yeah, I know what you mean about responses, one thing to consider is a lot of these builders are a one man band and generally great at building but not always the most savvy when it comes to customer service, with the people I've spoke to, once you make contact they're great, but yes, getting that initial contact can be painful. I know a lot of builders who would love a full time assistant to deal with enquiries, material orders, paintwork, part orders, invoicing, tax returns etc etc but for a lot of people they're not making enough to do so when the dust settles.

[raggedtrousers]

Yeah, I know what you mean about responses, one thing to consider is a lot of these builders are a one man band and generally great at building but not always the most savvy when it comes to customer service, with the people I've spoke to, once you make contact they're great, but yes, getting that initial contact can be painful. I know a lot of builders who would love a full time assistant to deal with enquiries, material orders, paintwork, part orders, invoicing, tax returns etc etc but for a lot of people they're not making enough to do so when the dust settles.

Tricky one, isn't it? I know these guys don't spend their days at computers, and like you say they're often 1 man companies, so I totally get that emails aren't/can't be always handled with great speed. On the other hand, I think one of the things I'm looking for at least is good comms, and poor speed/detail of reply is for me quite a bad sign and probably enough to tip the scales between guys who are, on the surface, offering very similar products at very similar prices. I've also had some very helpful conversations with previous customers of quite a few builders, and the variation in customer service/attitude is something that's stood out among the feedback. One telling line was 'tbh the whole experience was quite stressful', and that's absolutely not what I'm looking for!

[Ben689908]

It's exciting to hear who you eventually go with!

I'll keep you posted! Honestly, it's now just down to who I feel most on the same page with, tbh. I have some broad principles that are non-negotiable, but I'm open to advice on some of the details, and it's about getting that balance (along with an aesthetic I like and a price that fits the budget)

Can we ask who's on your shortlist?

[MrCurrieinahurry]

Srerrously with the cost of frames these days surely frame builders should get a boom soon!! I hope so

[Ant]

I bought a frame from Hampsten bikes in the USA. Hands down the best experience of buying anything in my life. The man knows how to look after a customer. Frame is superb too.

[raggedtrousers]

Can we ask who's o]n your shortlist?

Sure. In no particular order:

1. Rourke
2. Donhou
3. Burls (Ti)
4. the protege/apprentice of a very well known framebuilder who's just starting out on his own. I'm not sure he'd appreciate being named just yet.

I'm very reluctant not to include Casati and Stelbel, but the former would really be stretching the budget, and the latter has a 8-10 month lead. On reflection, my preference is to go with someone who I can actually see in person at some point, too.

Lots of other good builders have been ruled out either on grounds of non-communication, cost or lead times.

The left field option is a lost deposit frame from another well-known UK builder (who has asked me not to publicise that). The frame was made for someone else but they have since pulled out. It wouldn't be custom for me, which may well be a sticking point, but the original customer's measurements are actually pretty similar, and it's being offered at what they claim is cost (a 40% discount on list, subject to paint choice).

The final option is actually to hold on a bit. The more and more I've looked into this, the more and more I've discovered that my initial cost and time estimates were a bit ambitious. Though everything I'm looking at is very nice, with one possible exception there's a compromise somewhere with all of them, so I may actually save a bit more, and make this a 41st birthday present and get exactly what I want.

[bikewithnoname]

Rourke would certainly be the best value imho. Might not have teh glamour of a Stelbel or Peg but they are very well made frames
I believe Donhou has a new model launching soon. I got a suitably cryptic email from Tom last month

I believe nearly everyone full custom has had issues with supply/delivery due to lockdowns/COVID so your final option makes sense, wait a bit and get what you REALLY want if you think you'll be able to afford it

[Broady]

Rourke are great, I had an 853 frame a few years back, was a peach. You're probably aware but consider the whole Brexit customs / VAT thing if you do go Euro.

[c60rider]

I agree with a few of the comments about going with a Brian Rourke frame. When I first took up bike racing and steel was the only choice Rourke was the go to frame. They were that bit more money than others, but way cheaper than a Merckx or a Colnago, but most bike shops had their own brand of frame that probably all came from the same frame builder! But Rourke's were quite a lot better and the fact that they're one of the few frame builders still going from that era is testament to the quality of their frames. Or one I haven't seen mentioned here is Mercian http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frames/

[Bigger Gear]

I bought a frame from Hampsten bikes in the USA. Hands down the best experience of buying anything in my life. The man knows how to look after a customer. Frame is superb too.

I've been down the custom steel road a few times. Steve Hampsten is super easy to deal with, very knowledgeable, and a straight shooter with his opinions on what a bike should be.

Regarding communication, yes I agree that it can vary a lot from builder to builder. Some guys are literally a one-man operation and don't have time to be checking e-mail and DMs all day. By far the best way to get a feel for a builder is to have a phone conversation with them, be 100% honest and up front about what you want (if you know exactly what you want), but also be open to listen to suggestions from the builder. It's a 2-way street, I've a couple friends have custom bikes built where they pretty much forced their ideas onto the builder and then ended up unhappy when things didn't work out as they expected, but also another friend to who let the builder convince him into something he ultimately was not happy with either. At the end of the day, both parties really have to work together so the purchaser gets what he wants, but also gets something that is not too far outside the norms of a good riding bike.

For the OP, I see you are mainly wanting to stick to the UK and continental Europe. Might I also suggest Legor Cicli, they are Spanish but work with The Service Course and would be accessible through the SC Wilmslow shop. Also I really like the look of some of the bikes from Lester Cycles in Amsterdam.

[shimmeD]

+1 Bigger Gear, I find there's something like a lot to like about this Legor https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/bikes-o ... in-girona/
OTOH I'm staying loyal to English.

[DHG01]

Legor is an excellent choice; he is based in Spain, but is actually Italian. Another good option in Spain is RS Cycles. I think the OP would enjoy working with him, he is very engaged. A friend has one an the framebuilder drove from Rioja to Madrid to deliver in person. Arregui Velázquez is also well known. These are typically overqualified individuals (AV is an architect) who have a passion for bikes. They spend more time on a frame than what is profitable for them.

Perhaps best of all is Amaro - gorgeous bikes. But I don't think it would work for the OP. Before talking to you, Amaro makes you fill in a form and make a donation to a charity of your choice; he will then decide if you are a prick or worthy of his work. My understanding is that he will not sale a frameset, but only complete bikes - concerned over seeing his work of art with poor looking components. Having said that, the complete builds are reasonably priced. I think one day I will bend to his requirements...if he lets me.

[zappafile123]

x

[zappafile123]

I've got an Enigma Elite HSS (columbus spirit)(just about to get it repainted). I gotta say its really really fantastic rig. Its spritley, stiff, and just has that X factor that makes you want to ride. Its one of my all time favourite rides. Defintely recommend if you want a racy steel frame.

[raggedtrousers]

+1 Bigger Gear, I find there's something like a lot to like about this Legor https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/bikes-o ... in-girona/
OTOH I'm staying loyal to English.

That is very nice.